Astrology
#51
(08-04-2011, 05:31 PM)ggreg Wrote: Who has known the mind of God and who has been his councillor?

God allows men to acquire all sorts of knowledge of how to split the atom and manipulate DNA.  Complete eccentrics can have amazing talents and skills.  Austistic Savants sometimes have abilities which are almost inhuman.

Please bear in mind that she did not raise the subject of horoscopes that day in the library nor did she do so again while I was at Uni with her.  She was a shy, retiring academic type.  It was a one off event and more students forgot about it.  I remembered very clearly these last 25 years.

Certainly not the sort of person who appeared to have satanic powers.  Not to say that she didn't.  Something weird went on that day that is for sure.

Well, Ggreg, I like the way you defend Helen, and well you should.  Personally I think she is a fine lady, with tremendous perspicacity and what she divined was no fluke.  Quietly she studied everyone of you and when the time came for the experiment to be done, she already had an idea of each and every one of you as to what or who you were.  A shy, retiring academic type like Helen inspires trust and respect.  Well then... back to the basic question.  Is there a good Astrology as per St. Albert, St. Thomas, Leo X, Julius II?  Or is all Astrology bad as per the Council of Toledo and the Council of Braga?  Yes... no.... why so...etc.
Reply
#52
(08-04-2011, 01:03 AM)Joshua Wrote:
(08-04-2011, 12:52 AM)ggreg Wrote: Certainly I would have to believe a supernatural intelligence gave her that power as the alternative is mathematically impossible. But perhaps God gives people strange powers on rare occasions. I don't see why it must be the Devil.

I don't see why God would grant someone the ability to astound people with knowledge that in no way pertains to the faith or even has the potential to lead anyone to Christ.

You are assuming that's why God did it.  Maybe God granted it for unfathomable reasons, and they she was using it the way she did of her own free will unrelated to why God (inscrutably) gave her that ability.
Reply
#53
(08-05-2011, 09:53 AM)newyorkcatholic Wrote:
(08-04-2011, 01:03 AM)Joshua Wrote:
(08-04-2011, 12:52 AM)ggreg Wrote: Certainly I would have to believe a supernatural intelligence gave her that power as the alternative is mathematically impossible. But perhaps God gives people strange powers on rare occasions. I don't see why it must be the Devil.

I don't see why God would grant someone the ability to astound people with knowledge that in no way pertains to the faith or even has the potential to lead anyone to Christ.

You are assuming that's why God did it.  Maybe God granted it for unfathomable reasons, and they she was using it the way she did of her own free will unrelated to why God (inscrutably) gave her that ability.

Does good Astrolgy exist, as per Popes Leo X and Julius II?
Reply
#54
That ones fate is defined by the motion of the stars and planets, I don't believe. but that they could somehow affect your personality I am open minded about. Gravity is a weird force. In a vacuum how does one planet know that the other is there? Gravity waves would need to travel through a vacuum. Maybe, just maybe, horoscope information on where planets and stars are travels through some type of aether.
Reply
#55
(08-07-2011, 12:41 AM)ggreg Wrote: That ones fate is defined by the motion of the stars and planets, I don't believe. but that they could somehow affect your personality I am open minded about. Gravity is a weird force. In a vacuum how does one planet know that the other is there? Gravity waves would need to travel through a vacuum. Maybe, just maybe, horoscope information on where planets and stars are travels through some type of aether.

How is it possible for dead physical matter such as that of the planets to be able to affect human personality which is complex, alive and spiritual?  I think Astrology is a myth. But then... how can I disregard completely what saints and Popes have said as to the "good side" of Astrology?  I'm still in a quandry.
Reply
#56
The Sunshine affects my mood.  Mexicans have a different outlook on life because of the heat and humidity that Canadians.

Malnourished people will develop different personalities that well-nourished people.

New Yorkers are different than mid-westerners.

We are physical beings so the physical environment will affect some of us if not all (to some extent)
Reply
#57
(08-07-2011, 08:35 PM)ggreg Wrote: The Sunshine affects my mood.  Mexicans have a different outlook on life because of the heat and humidity that Canadians.

Malnourished people will develop different personalities that well-nourished people.

New Yorkers are different than mid-westerners.

We are physical beings so the physical environment will affect some of us if not all (to some extent)

I guess that's why ancient Greece and ancient Rome managed to set up two World Empires.  They had the right stuff! 
Reply
#58
(08-05-2011, 09:53 AM)newyorkcatholic Wrote:
(08-04-2011, 01:03 AM)Joshua Wrote:
(08-04-2011, 12:52 AM)ggreg Wrote: Certainly I would have to believe a supernatural intelligence gave her that power as the alternative is mathematically impossible. But perhaps God gives people strange powers on rare occasions. I don't see why it must be the Devil.

I don't see why God would grant someone the ability to astound people with knowledge that in no way pertains to the faith or even has the potential to lead anyone to Christ.

You are assuming that's why God did it.  Maybe God granted it for unfathomable reasons, and they she was using it the way she did of her own free will unrelated to why God (inscrutably) gave her that ability.

When God grants someone an ability that goes beyond the natural realm, it will always be an ability that has the potential to either fortify the recipient's faith or to do with with those around him. Healing, Prophecy, Bi-location, etc. What possible holy use can be derived from an ability to determine someone's astrological signs, considering that much (if not all) of modern astrology runs in opposition to Catholicism? If we are going to claim the possibility of God directly infusing someone with a preternatural ability then it must be shown to be an ability that can lead souls to Him. What other purpose could there be?

Or does God just imbue abilities in us arbitrarily for our own or His amusement?
Reply
#59
(08-09-2011, 01:27 AM)Joshua Wrote:
(08-05-2011, 09:53 AM)newyorkcatholic Wrote:
(08-04-2011, 01:03 AM)Joshua Wrote:
(08-04-2011, 12:52 AM)ggreg Wrote: Certainly I would have to believe a supernatural intelligence gave her that power as the alternative is mathematically impossible. But perhaps God gives people strange powers on rare occasions. I don't see why it must be the Devil.

I don't see why God would grant someone the ability to astound people with knowledge that in no way pertains to the faith or even has the potential to lead anyone to Christ.

You are assuming that's why God did it.  Maybe God granted it for unfathomable reasons, and they she was using it the way she did of her own free will unrelated to why God (inscrutably) gave her that ability.

When God grants someone an ability that goes beyond the natural realm, it will always be an ability that has the potential to either fortify the recipient's faith or to do with with those around him. Healing, Prophecy, Bi-location, etc. What possible holy use can be derived from an ability to determine someone's astrological signs, considering that much (if not all) of modern astrology runs in opposition to Catholicism? If we are going to claim the possibility of God directly infusing someone with a preternatural ability then it must be shown to be an ability that can lead souls to Him. What other purpose could there be?

Or does God just imbue abilities in us arbitrarily for our own or His amusement?

This.

Thank you, Joshua, for your brilliant analysis.

Could you further explain "much (if not all) of modern astrology runs in opposition to Catholicism?".  Thank you.  I appreciate your response.
Reply
#60
wulfrano Wrote:This.

Thank you, Joshua, for your brilliant analysis.

Could you further explain "much (if not all) of modern astrology runs in opposition to Catholicism?".  Thank you.  I appreciate your response.

Thank you, Wulfrano.

In regard to astrology's conflict with Catholicism, the 1983 Catechism (which I am aware you reject) does a fairly concise job in this (a broken clock is right twice a day, I suppose):
Quote:"All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to ‘unveil’ the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone" (CCC 2116).
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)