Saint John of Avila to be Declared a Doctor of the Church


Obedience  (true obedience that is, not false obedience)

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Not Just for Women Anymore  (Never was actually, that's feminist propaganda)

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(08-22-2011, 11:18 PM)Valz Wrote: With regards to St. Thérèse, here is what Pope John Paul II said when he declared her a doctor of The Church:

Divini Amoris Scientia, 19 October 1997 - Apostolic Letter
"Fulfilling the wishes of many Brothers in the Episcopate and of a great number of the faithful throughout the world, after consulting the Congregation for the Causes of Saints and hearing the opinion of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith regarding her eminent doctrine, with certain knowledge and after lengthy reflection, with the fullness of Our apostolic authority We declare Saint Thérèse of the Child Jesus and the Holy Face, virgin, to be a Doctor of the Universal Church. In the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

Complains about her being a female, not producing massive works of theology, or any such things are very much irrelevant. The guarantee of the Holy Spirit to protect the Church from error when declaring matters of faith and morals trumps any such speculations and conspiracies and should give peace of mind to the faithful Catholic.


Valz


This is not a matter of infallibility, this is a matter of prudence.  The fullness of papal authority in this is no greater than the fullness of papal authority in Pope Stephen declaring Pope Formosus' ordinations invalid.
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(08-22-2011, 11:36 PM)Gerard Wrote: This is not a matter of infallibility, this is a matter of prudence.  The fullness of papal authority in this is no greater than the fullness of papal authority in Pope Stephen declaring Pope Formosus' ordinations invalid.

Your argument here is merely one of degree of authority and not of kind, thus it doesn't really obviates the need to submit to the Pope when he exercises the fullness of his authority. And besides, lest we forget, POPE Stephen delcared POPE Formosus's ordination invalid. We are not the Pope and cannot take it upon ourselves to determine that something which the Pope declares with his full authority is invalid.

Valz
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(08-22-2011, 11:35 PM)Gerard Wrote:
Obedience  (true obedience that is, not false obedience)

[Image: pplefebvre120109.jpg]

Not Just for Women Anymore  (Never was actually, that's feminist propaganda)

[Image: SiegeOfAcre1291.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEV...9188865921]
[/quote]

:laughing:
I was teasing him.

By claiming that Saint Teresa of Avila, Saint Catherine of Siena, and Saint Therese of the Child Jesus are not Doctors of the Church, you guys are directly being disobedient to the Pope.  Even the above's society obeys this.   Welcome to the Church of One instead of the One Church.  More Jansenist anti-ultramontanes garbage.  Look, the Bride of Christ does not agree with you on this stuff and she never will.  It's been what? Almost 400 years.  "In doctrine but not fact, blah, blah, blah, de facto, de jure, blah, blah, blah..."
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(08-22-2011, 11:59 PM)Roger the Shrubber Wrote: By claiming that Saint Teresa of Avila, Saint Catherine of Siena, and Saint Therese of the Child Jesus are not Doctors of the Church, you guys are directly being disobedient to the Pope.  Even the above's society obeys this.   Welcome to the Church of One instead of the One Church.  More Jansenist anti-ultramontanes garbage.  Look, the Bride of Christ does not agree with you on this stuff and she never will.  It's been what? Almost 400 years.  "In doctrine but not fact, blah, blah, blah, de facto, de jure, blah, blah, blah..."

Your naïveté and self-righteousness are appalling.
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(08-22-2011, 11:59 PM)Valz Wrote: Your argument here is merely one of degree of authority and not of kind, thus it doesn't really obviates the need to submit to the Pope when he exercises the fullness of his authority. And besides, lest we forget, POPE Stephen delcared POPE Formosus's ordination invalid. We are not the Pope and cannot take it upon ourselves to determine that something which the Pope declares with his full authority is invalid.
Valz

Who said anything about validity?  This isn't a sacrament,  it's just an honorary title.  It's about prudential judgement.  The Pope calls something red "blue" and we know he's wrong, it's a manifest error,  but it requires no submission of intellect but rather an appeal to another Pope to correct the ERROR of the previous Pope.  That is simply the way to undue the formal aspect of the error. 
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(08-22-2011, 11:59 PM)Roger the Shrubber Wrote: By claiming that Saint Teresa of Avila, Saint Catherine of Siena, and Saint Therese of the Child Jesus are not Doctors of the Church, you guys are directly being disobedient to the Pope.  Even the above's society obeys this.   Welcome to the Church of One instead of the One Church.  More Jansenist anti-ultramontanes garbage.  Look, the Bride of Christ does not agree with you on this stuff and she never will.  It's been what? Almost 400 years.  "In doctrine but not fact, blah, blah, blah, de facto, de jure, blah, blah, blah..."

Nonsense. Disobedience has nothing to do with this.  The heirarchy has given three women a title that should be reserved to men.  That's all.  It's a clerical error due to bad thinking.  "The Church" has not done anything magisterial.  A future Pope or this one can reverse, change it, condemn the errors of the liberal Popes and everything will be fine.  Until then, the incoherent thinking of of Paul VI and JPII will shine forth in the annals of papal blunders. 
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(08-23-2011, 01:10 AM)Gerard Wrote: The Pope calls something red "blue" and we know he's wrong, it's a manifest error,  but it requires no submission of intellect but rather an appeal to another Pope to correct the ERROR of the previous Pope.

Since when is declaring a female to be a Doctor of The Church an error?


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(08-23-2011, 07:33 AM)Valz Wrote:
(08-23-2011, 01:10 AM)Gerard Wrote: The Pope calls something red "blue" and we know he's wrong, it's a manifest error,  but it requires no submission of intellect but rather an appeal to another Pope to correct the ERROR of the previous Pope.

Since when is declaring a female to be a Doctor of The Church an error?

Since the day it first occurred.  The error is no different in type than saying gays are "couples" instead of pairs or "homosexual marriage."  It's nominalism. 
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(08-23-2011, 08:44 AM)Gerard Wrote:
(08-23-2011, 07:33 AM)Valz Wrote:
(08-23-2011, 01:10 AM)Gerard Wrote: The Pope calls something red "blue" and we know he's wrong, it's a manifest error,  but it requires no submission of intellect but rather an appeal to another Pope to correct the ERROR of the previous Pope.

Since when is declaring a female to be a Doctor of The Church an error?

Since the day it first occurred.  The error is no different in type than saying gays are "couples" instead of pairs or "homosexual marriage."   It's nominalism. 

"Fulfilling the wishes of many Brothers in the Episcopate and of a great number of the faithful throughout the world, after consulting the Congregation for the Causes of Saints and hearing the opinion of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith regarding her eminent doctrine, with certain knowledge and after lengthy reflection, with the fullness of Our apostolic authority We declare Saint Thérèse of the Child Jesus and the Holy Face, virgin, to be a Doctor of the Universal Church. In the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." -Pope JPII

ubi petrus ibi ecclesia

:ciao:
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