Astrology
#61
(08-09-2011, 06:29 PM)Joshua Wrote:
wulfrano Wrote:This.

Thank you, Joshua, for your brilliant analysis.

Could you further explain "much (if not all) of modern astrology runs in opposition to Catholicism?".  Thank you.  I appreciate your response.

Thank you, Wulfrano.

In regard to astrology's conflict with Catholicism, the 1983 Catechism (which I am aware you reject) does a fairly concise job in this (a broken clock is right twice a day, I suppose):
Quote:"All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to ‘unveil’ the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone" (CCC 2116).

I have no trouble with that and do accept it.  My tribulation comes when I read that supposedly St. Thomas and St. Albert justified Astrology and that Popes Julius II and Leo X not only justified it but also practiced it.  See what I mean?
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#62
wulfrano Wrote:I have no trouble with that and do accept it.  My tribulation comes when I read that supposedly St. Thomas and St. Albert justified Astrology and that Popes Julius II and Leo X not only justified it but also practiced it.  See what I mean?

What exactly did astrology consist of during the time periods of the above figures? How does it differ from what is commonly practiced as astrology today?
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#63
(08-10-2011, 01:10 AM)Joshua Wrote:
wulfrano Wrote:I have no trouble with that and do accept it.  My tribulation comes when I read that supposedly St. Thomas and St. Albert justified Astrology and that Popes Julius II and Leo X not only justified it but also practiced it.  See what I mean?

What exactly did astrology consist of during the time periods of the above figures? How does it differ from what is commonly practiced as astrology today?

Exactly so.  Maybe in the times of those saints and Popes Astrology wasn't too bad.  Maybe now it is.  That is what I'm trying to find out.  Why was it not too bad then and why is it terrible now?
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#64
(07-31-2011, 02:42 AM)wulfrano Wrote: What have the Catholic Church doctors stated throughout history about ASTROLOGY?

The Angelic Doctor wrote on this in Summa Theologica II-II q. 95 a. 5 ("Whether divination by the stars is unlawful?").

Although he does indeed believe heavenly bodies have an effect on (cf. "Whether the heavenly bodies are the cause of what is produced in bodies here below?"), although they do not impose necessity on (cf. "Whether heavenly bodies impose necessity on things subject to their action?"), earthly bodies, a claim even modern natural scientists would concede; Aquinas does not think divination by the stars is lawful because diviners often get possessed of an evil spirit in thinking they can know the future in itself—as only God can, because He is outside of time—rather than through the present causes of future events, as a weather forecaster would know the future.
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#65
(08-09-2011, 01:27 AM)Joshua Wrote: What possible holy use can be derived from an ability to determine someone's astrological signs, considering that much (if not all) of modern astrology runs in opposition to Catholicism? If we are going to claim the possibility of God directly infusing someone with a preternatural ability then it must be shown to be an ability that can lead souls to Him. What other purpose could there be?

Well, it's been shown that when Jupiter lines up on the other side of the Sun with the Earth, we have a huge earthquake.  I'm sure that knowledge can be used for a holy use.
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#66
(08-07-2011, 03:53 AM)wulfrano Wrote: How is it possible for dead physical matter such as that of the planets to be able to affect human personality which is complex, alive and spiritual?

Much of our personality is biological.  Perhaps certain gravitation affects our ability to produce one type of hormone over another.  I think the concept is very interesting, but I would think that if astrology is able to tell us anything about our personality, it would make more sense to base it off of when we are conceived, not a time as biologically insignificant as birth.
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#67
(09-03-2011, 08:16 AM)Melkite Wrote:
(08-07-2011, 03:53 AM)wulfrano Wrote: How is it possible for dead physical matter such as that of the planets to be able to affect human personality which is complex, alive and spiritual?

Much of our personality is biological.  Perhaps certain gravitation affects our ability to produce one type of hormone over another.  I think the concept is very interesting, but I would think that if astrology is able to tell us anything about our personality, it would make more sense to base it off of when we are conceived, not a time as biologically insignificant as birth.

Except for the fact that the obstetrician delivering you had more gravitational influence than Jupiter did.  In other words - it's complete rubbish.
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#68
(09-03-2011, 12:37 PM)Pheo Wrote: Except for the fact that the obstetrician delivering you had more gravitational influence than Jupiter did.  In other words - it's complete rubbish.

I think so too.  One day I told that to someone, and they said, 'well what if the magnetic field of the mother shielded the baby until it was born?"  That makes sense, until you realize the magnetic field of the earth itself is far stronger, so if gravitation can't get through a woman's magnetic field, it can't get through the earth's either.
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#69
I'm glad we're all so intelligent now and we've got it all figured out, unlike all our dumb ancestors.

We're so blessed!
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#70
(09-05-2011, 12:50 AM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: I'm glad we're all so intelligent now and we've got it all figured out, unlike all our dumb ancestors.

We're so blessed!

I didn't take you for the horoscope type.
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