Pope's failure in Germany

[Freudentaumel]

Obviously David Werling has not heard the Holy Father's speech, or he didn't understand it. The pope is subtle and no hard-hitter, yes, but this was one of the most brilliant speeches I have heard in a long, long time. The Holy Father has taken apart the very foundations of modern society. And some uber-trads are just too thick to get it.

Do you have a link to the speech?

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedi...in_en.html

[Crusading Philologist]

I thought it was a good speech, but I do wish the Holy Father wasn't so quick to embrace the whole human rights discourse. I can kind of see where he is coming from, but, considering how critical he can be of other aspects of modernity, you'd think he would be a little more wary of the notion of human rights.

[Landelinus]

Obviously David Werling has not heard the Holy Father's speech, or he didn't understand it. The pope is subtle and no hard-hitter, yes, but this was one of the most brilliant speeches I have heard in a long, long time. The Holy Father has taken apart the very foundations of modern society. And some uber-trads are just too thick to get it.

Do you have a link to the speech?

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedi...in_en.html

Thanks for the link FT.  I had primarily read his two addresses at Erfurt: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedi...rt_en.html
And
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedi...rt_en.html
Benedict's conciliatory style of ecumenism I think goes too rar.  Raprochment is one thing.  Pretending there to be a unity where non exists and lauding Luther is another.  BXVI may not be thoroughly modernist, but he is by no means free of its influence.

[Freudentaumel]

I agree with both of you on these points.

Ironically, if you believe the German Mass Media then the pope has pissed of all protestants and more or less stopped ecumenism completely.

[tradne4163]

I agree with both of you on these points.

Ironically, if you believe the German Mass Media then the pope has pissed of all protestants and more or less stopped ecumenism completely.

If only that were the case.... things would be better in the long run.

[Dewi]

I did read the Holy Father's address to the Bundestag, and it wasn't very difficult to understand.

A curious fact that may or may not have any relevance (take from what you want) is that the words "Jesus" and "Christ" do not appear in the whole of the address.

[Prie dieu]

A curious fact that may or may not have any relevance (take from what you want) is that the words "Jesus" and "Christ" do not appear in the whole of the address.

Yet God is mentioned.  Did Jesus Christ cease being God and if He did, why did I miss the memo?  You'd think something like that would have been read out Mass..

[Adam Wayne]

The pope went out of his way to visit the Eichsfeld a remote Catholic area in the middle of reformation Germany. He specially lauded the Catholics there for staying true to the faith during the Communist area, while all the protestants around them left the faith.

I think this is what is known as a redundancy.

[Crusading Philologist]

A curious fact that may or may not have any relevance (take from what you want) is that the words "Jesus" and "Christ" do not appear in the whole of the address.

Yet God is mentioned.  Did Jesus Christ cease being God and if He did, why did I miss the memo?  You'd think something like that would have been read out Mass..

To be fair, the Incarnation is one of the central tenets of Christianity. Failing to mention it specifically does seem a little too ecumenical. Although, I suspect the Holy Father wanted to avoid preaching to the choir in his speech. He was talking to the German government, after all, and something tells me they aren't a particularly religious bunch.

[Prie dieu]

To be fair, the Incarnation is one of the central tenets of Christianity. Failing to mention it specifically does seem a little too ecumenical. Although, I suspect the Holy Father wanted to avoid preaching to the choir in his speech. He was talking to the German government, after all, and something tells me they aren't a particularly religious bunch.

I don't understand the statement about it seeming a little "too ecumenical".  As far as I can tell, the "rad-trads" are getting a little uppity about the Holy Father being a little too friendly with Protestants.  Now, as far as my knowledge goes, Protestants believe in the Incarnation of the Second Divine Person of the Most Holy Trinity.  And unless you want to accuse the Holy Father of getting too ecumenical with secularist-atheists (which simply couldn't be grounded in reality considering all he has said on this subject) I think people are just nit-picking.

However, it would have been nice to have talked about the Social Kingship of Christ more explicitly, I don't see anything overwhelmingly troublesome about the address.