Souls in heaven rejoicing at the sight of the damned?
#31
Does a judge of a human court rejoice in the sentence he inflicts a criminal?
Does this same judge rejoice in knowing this criminal stays in jail for all his life?
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#32
(02-05-2012, 03:31 PM)su Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 03:24 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 02:38 PM)Crusader_Philly Wrote: Yes, he is not a saint in the Roman Catholic Church.

Not a saint of the RCC = 100% wrong on each and every thing they ever said.   :eyeroll:

For your accusation and disdain for St. Thomas, I think you should not expect much sympathy here.

To be fair, I don't think I've ever condemned him for something that wasn't brought up already on the forum.  My condemnation of him has been solely on individual issues depending on the argument at hand.
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#33
(02-05-2012, 06:13 PM)Melkite Wrote: To be fair, I don't think I've ever condemned him for something that wasn't brought up already on the forum.  My condemnation of him has been solely on individual issues depending on the argument at hand.

I hope you meet him someday.

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#34
(02-05-2012, 08:44 AM)Melkite Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 06:49 AM)Aragon Wrote: In this video sermon given by a traditionalist priest the preacher claims that the souls in heaven, and God Himself, look down on the souls in Hell and laugh and rejoice at their torture. I wanted to get your opinions on this issue.

I didn't watch the video, but if it's not different than your description, it's utter bullshit.

DITTO !!!
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#35
(02-05-2012, 06:14 PM)su Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 06:13 PM)Melkite Wrote: To be fair, I don't think I've ever condemned him for something that wasn't brought up already on the forum.  My condemnation of him has been solely on individual issues depending on the argument at hand.

I hope you meet him someday.

Honestly, I hope I do too.  I think I could probably get eons of enjoyment for whatever the heavenly version of discussing stuff over a mug of tea is.  Same goes for St. Augustine.  As much as I hate a lot of his theology, I actually think i'd enjoy his company.
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#36
(02-05-2012, 06:22 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 06:14 PM)su Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 06:13 PM)Melkite Wrote: To be fair, I don't think I've ever condemned him for something that wasn't brought up already on the forum.  My condemnation of him has been solely on individual issues depending on the argument at hand.

I hope you meet him someday.

Honestly, I hope I do too.  I think I could probably get eons of enjoyment for whatever the heavenly version of discussing stuff over a mug of tea is.  Same goes for St. Augustine.  As much as I hate a lot of his theology, I actually think i'd enjoy his company.

...the alternative to not being eternal damnation I should you honestly hope so.

And, I'd study their virtues too.

St. Thomas for his great chastity and angelic wisdom and mystical experiences.

St. Augustine for his great wisdom in addressing many questions people had in the Church at the end of the Roman Empire as it was known.

It is easy to find dry theology to be distasteful, but they are not saints because of their learning and writing, but because of their public profession of faith and heroic virtue.
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#37
(02-05-2012, 04:20 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 03:55 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 03:31 PM)su Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 03:24 PM)Melkite Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 02:38 PM)Crusader_Philly Wrote: Yes, he is not a saint in the Roman Catholic Church.

Not a saint of the RCC = 100% wrong on each and every thing they ever said.   :eyeroll:

For your accusation and disdain for St. Thomas, I think you should not expect much sympathy here.

He has my sympathy. I have a great deal of respect for St. Thomas Aquinas, but he was human, and therefore capable of error, and I think he was wrong on this point. The thought of anybody (either God or the souls in Heaven) rejoicing in the suffering of the damned is absolutely disgusting to me. If I weren't already Catholic, that would be enough to turn me away -- "If this is what Catholics believe, I want no part of their religion." Fortunately, it's not what all of us believe. I'm 100% on Melkite's side on this issue.

I'm with you guys. No offense to Aragon, but I put these kinds of threads in the same category as those that use scripture to calculate the number of souls in hell. We can believe in the existence of hell without these morbid exercises.

There's nothing "morbid" about theology. You're all having a knee jerk reaction without even considering the theological concepts behind it.

It's not like the elect are laughing at the damned like spoiled children in the schoolyard but that they rightfully rejoice in God's justice. Who wouldn't, after all? God's justice is perfect.
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#38
(02-05-2012, 09:14 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: It's not like the elect are laughing at the damned like spoiled children in the schoolyard but that they rightfully rejoice in God's justice. Who wouldn't, after all? God's justice is perfect.


It is indeed right to rejoice over God's justice, but it's not His justice that condemns those in hell. It is the rejection and negation of God's love that places them in hell. That is nothing for anyone to rejoice over.
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#39
(02-05-2012, 09:32 PM)Silouan Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 09:14 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: It's not like the elect are laughing at the damned like spoiled children in the schoolyard but that they rightfully rejoice in God's justice. Who wouldn't, after all? God's justice is perfect.


It is indeed right to rejoice over God's justice, but it's not His justice that condemns those in hell. It is the rejection and negation of God's love that places them in hell. That is nothing for anyone to rejoice over.

That rejection of God's Mercy and Love is what places them in Hell with His Justice. The damned are where they always ultimately wanted to be. Their nature cannot be changed, they would not go to Heaven if they were allowed. 

Everything is as it should be in Heaven and Hell and that's enough to be joyful over.  Mercy is given, Justice has been shown.  To deny this is to question God's goodness and claim His Justice is some form of Injustice. 


God loves the damned more than any of us would or could.  So, the fact that they are damned must mean that it's right and those in Heaven see the "rightness" of God's flawless Judgement and perfect love in allowing them to remove themselves from His Mercy.
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#40
(02-05-2012, 09:14 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: There's nothing "morbid" about theology. You're all having a knee jerk reaction without even considering the theological concepts behind it.

It's not like the elect are laughing at the damned like spoiled children in the schoolyard but that they rightfully rejoice in God's justice. Who wouldn't, after all? God's justice is perfect.

God's justice is perfect, but the vision of God mocking the damned comes, in this case, from the priest taking the passage literally. The Bible is full of anthropomorphism and hyperbole. The same Bible that says “God hated Esau” also says “God is love.” I'm willing to let the theologians fight it out, but I reserve the right to reject any theological concept that seems to distort God's nature.
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