Hello, New here
#11
OK read that thing, I definitely do not associate myself with radical feminists, but pardon my candor here, I really do not like the veil thing. Can't we wear a hat or something more flattering, I don't think that St. Paul needed us to look dowdy?(no offense the veil crowd intended)
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#12
makemeaspark Wrote:OK read that thing, I definitely do not associate myself with radical feminists, but pardon my candor here, I really do not like the veil thing. Can't we wear a hat or something more flattering, I don't think that St. Paul needed us to look dowdy?(no offense the veil crowd intended)

A hat is perfectly fine, and many women choose hats over veils as a matter of personal preference.


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#13
makemeaspark Wrote:OK read that thing, I definitely do not associate myself with radical feminists, but pardon my candor here, I really do not like the veil thing. Can't we wear a hat or something more flattering, I don't think that St. Paul needed us to look dowdy?(no offense the veil crowd intended)
Though certain traditional Catholics here would say "hats are Protestant" the translation of St. Paul's words clearly only say to "cover" or "a power" and veils were just the only historical head covering they could use. I like it because of it's Hebrew and Arab roots.

Just wondering, what in your eyes makes the veil not neat and unfashionable? Why should "fashion" have any influence on how you are to pray to your God? God alone should be the only influence on how you present yourself to Him whether in a church or anywhere.


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#14
makemeaspark Wrote:Is it not enough that I recognize men in authority over me? If my spirit is humble before God and I am yielded to God and The Vicar of Christ, and I acknowledge my submission to men on this earth. Is this not enough? Must there be an outward sign of an inward grace?
Did Christ institute the Seven Sacraments (outward signs of inward grace) as a necessity? The Church says so and Her aestheticism proves it no matter how hard Modernism tries to destroy it. How one prays is how one believes. Recognition of authority is nothing without obedience to that authority. Remember that the authority is not men's either but God's. If you acknowledge men's (many times abused) dominion then SHOW it. In the reverse, can men now cover their heads? What do you think would happen if men came into a church wearing a covering?
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#15
So basically you in this forum are saying that you are more interested in how Catholic you look, instead of how much you love the Lord and live out the Christian life.

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#16
makemeaspark Wrote:So basically you in this forum are saying that you are more interested in how Catholic you look, instead of how much you love the Lord and live out the Christian life.

No, thats whats being said. The one does not rule out the other. Things can look nice, and you can have an internal benefit.
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#17
Some here seem to be quite insistent that they care not if I take in the homeless and serve the church in many capacities but I am considered unrighteous if my head is not covered properly, or catholic-ally enough?

In my parish almost no women have their heads covered and yet we are very traditional and faithful to church teaching, we have Eucharistic adoration often that is accompanied by a procession of the Holy Eucharist around our entire inner city block. The adoration is well attended and there is a large devotion to the rosary at our parish also. Our priests uphold church teaching and the parishioners like it that way. We are very supportive of it.

And yet the few that I see that don the veil regularly, keep to themselves, as if the rest of us may taint them, they are not involved in parish activities, do not teach catechism, do not serve with St. Vincent De Paul society and are not involved in any charitable works that I have personally observed. They are not in choir, do not read or canter, administer the blessed sacrament or go up to take blessed sacrament to the sick.

I have not seen their children involved in youth group, and they are not at adoration, when I am there(or my friends). They have been known to hand out heretical brochures, however, usually involving some illicit apparitions of Mary.

Now I am not saying the veil brings this on or causes it, I am not saying that I reject the head covering becuase of this, but it is a very poor witness to the world and makes me want to disassociate myself with them. If it is a true teaching of the church that I should have my head covered then i will obey, but I would prefer not to be associated with heretics.

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#18
makemeaspark Wrote:Some here seem to be quite insistent that they care not if I take in the homeless and serve the church in many capacities but I am considered unrighteous if my head is not covered properly, or catholic-ally enough?

We are supposed to do all those things - cover heads if women, remove hats if men AND acts of charity and service.  It's not an either / or situation.

Quote:In my parish almost no women have their heads covered and yet we are very traditional and faithful to church teaching, we have Eucharistic adoration often that is accompanied by a procession of the Holy Eucharist around our entire inner city block. The adoration is well attended and there is a large devotion to the rosary at our parish also. Our priests uphold church teaching and the parishioners like it that way. We are very supportive of it.

Is the Mass the Novus Ordo Missae or the Traditional Latin Mass?   I'm not sure you're using the same definition of traditional we're using as found here.

Quote:Despite these varying opinions on the requirements of obedience, what all traditional Catholics who fit the label have in common -- whether they are sedevacantist, whether they worship inside or outside of diocesan structures -- are:
 
  • the dogmas of the Faith understood in a manner consistent with the way Catholics had always understood them -- i.e., they reject the errors outlined above
     
  • a desire to preserve and restore all of the ancient liturgical rites, and to do so not because these are "preferred," but because they are objectively superior to the new rites and should once again become normative
     
  • a deep understanding of or intuition about the importance of preserving not only instrinsic tradition (the unwritten Deposit of the Faith handed down by Christ and His Apostles), but also the ecclesiastical tradition (extrinsic tradition) which has served to preserve intrinsic tradition and allows parents and priests to pass it down in an effective way 7
     
  • a strong sensus Catholicus (Catholic "sense" or "instinct"), including a cautious, Catholic approach to novelty

Quote:And yet the few that I see that don the veil regularly, keep to themselves, as if the rest of us may taint them, they are not involved in parish activities, do not teach catechism, do not serve with St. Vincent De Paul society and are not involved in any charitable works that I have personally observed. They are not in choir, do not read or canter, administer the blessed sacrament or go up to take blessed sacrament to the sick.

And traditional Catholics wouldn't.  We believe only a priest may handle the Blessed Sacrament, etc.  Many of the things you mention are post-Vatican II innovations.

Quote:I have not seen their children involved in youth group, and they are not at adoration, when I am there(or my friends). They have been known to hand out heretical brochures, however, usually involving some illicit apparitions of Mary.

There are heretics in every group.  Because there are a few who are doing that doesn't mean everyone who is veiled does it.

Quote:Now I am not saying the veil brings this on or causes it, I am not saying that I reject the head covering becuase of this, but it is a very poor witness to the world and makes me want to disassociate myself with them. If it is a true teaching of the church that I should have my head covered then i will obey, but I would prefer not to be associated with heretics.


We certainly shouldn't associate with heretics, but if through no fault of our own some heretics adopt the outward appearance of Catholicism that doesn't mean we get to reject the teachings of the Church.

The Lutherans have Communion, and they are raging heretics.  We don't stop having Communion because the Lutherans do.
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#19
I love the prayer that you use at the bottom of your posts, it is very beautiful. I would like to learn the latin.

Can I ask you why you feel that Latin is a more appropriate language for mass? I ask all my questions here humbly in the spirit of wanting to be more in line with the truth, though i may not adopt all of your ideas i will any that bear up to scripture and the spirit of what I see as the Love of God, manifest in this earth. I do very much appreciate your kind answers to my questions, and your patience with my curiosity.

The methods that I am very likely to reject are ones that are just window dressing but not from a spirit of Love(God).

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#20
No problem on honest questions.  You don't even have to agree with our answers ;)


Remeber that Latin is the ecclesiastical language of the Latin Rite.  The Eastern Catholic Rites use other languages such as Greek, etc.   There is nothing "magical" about Latin, but there are good solid reasons for it being objectively better as a liturgical and ecclesiastical language than English, French, etc.

There is a whole page on Latin here:  http://www.fisheaters.com/latin.html

Let me give a few other basic reasons as well...

One simple reason is that the Church is Universal.  If all Masses were in Latin, you could go to any Church in any country and attend Mass, know what was going on, etc.

A psychological benefit is that it lets one know that they are in a sacred rite - the Holy Mass.  That's probably the only place you will ever hear Latin spoken (and during prayers outside of Mass).  This helps us remember why we are there - to worship and adore God.

Latin is also a "dead language".  By that it means the meaning of the words don't change.  The words mean the same thing they meant 2000 years ago.  English, for example, has words that change meaning.  Gay used to mean happy, now it can mean homosexual.  By using a "dead language" the words in the liturgy will mean exactly the same thing always.

Finally, it is a beautiful language.  It's part of our patrimony as members of the Roman Church, and when we pray in Latin we know that we are saying the exact same words all the Saints and Martyrs did thousands of years ago.  So it serves us aesthetically and as a spiritual reminder as well.


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