hey

[DJMitch]

Hello, everybody. I have been lurking here for some time, but have never, thus far, said anything on these discussion forums. I should say that I am not yet a Catholic, but am about a quarter of a centimetre away from the Church, and please, please would you pray for me. In my conversion process I have found much on this website, particularly the "Being Catholic" section and this discussion forum, very helpful. I hope I do not offend anybody here, and I hope I am not breaking any of the rules of the site, if I say that I do not, de profundis coris mei, concur wholeheartedly with all the views expressed by everybody on it. I have not, at present, as far as I know, the opportunity to attend what the Holy Father has called the "Extraordinary Form" of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, near me; but I prefer it aesthetically and perhaps, if one is permitted to say such a thing, spiritually also. I for my part believe that a Catholic is obliged to attend the New Mass when it is the only one available. I would never attend a Mass offered by the Society of Saint Pius the Tenth, because it is my understanding that they are schismatic, or if they are not schismatic (though, as I say, it appears to me that they are), then their position is ambiguous. I am looking forward to the sections that the webmistress, God bless her, says she would like to add to the website, particularly

"The Sacrifice of the Mass Sub-section:
The Divine Office (I have to get a breviary so I can figure it out!)
The Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary
Miscellaneous Sub-section:
Church Historical Timeline
[and]
New Sub-section to be added: Thinking Catholic
Catholic Writers You Should Know: From the Fathers to Belloc"

Obviously I do not expect them to be added immediately because I happened to mention them! I only mean I am looking forward to reading them.
The Bible I read is the Douay-Rheims, strictly speaking the Challoner-Rheims; as I do not have a hard copy of it I read it online at the New Advent website. I am reading it with Fr Haydock's commentary which some noble Catholic is transcribing verbatim et litteratim et punctatim, as far as possible (though there are a significant number of typographical errors at present) at http://haydock1859.tripod.com/
I don't have a problem with the Revised Standard Version, Catholic Edition; that would probably be my second choice of English translation. But not the New Revised Standard Version; I have a hearty dislike for what is called "inclusive language", which is destructive of meaning, intelligibility, and sense, among other things. For instance there is a version of a Christmas carol, with the words altered:

Original:
And man, at war with man, hears not
The love-song which they bring:
O hush your noise, ye men of strife,
And hear the angels sing!

Mutilated:
And warring humankind hears not
The love-song which they bring:
O hush the noise of mortal strife,
And hear the angels sing!

It is obvious which version is better.

Well, that was a bit of a digression; for a first post, this is getting rather long. Long enough, I think; so I shall bring it to an end, and hope nobody minds my being here.

Yours in Christ,

David

[loggats]

I think you'll fit right in with most of the people here. They love a bit of Douay-Rhiems on a Sunday afternoon...(I use a confraternity bible. With plenty of pictures).

[DJMitch]

Why, thank you!

[Historian]

Welcome to the fishbowl, DJM!

I would never attend a Mass offered by the Society of Saint Pius the Tenth, because it is my understanding that they are schismatic, or if they are not schismatic (though, as I say, it appears to me that they are),

I just have to ask, why not? Even the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI has said that Catholics can attend (could someone post the reference for his words on this issue please?).

then their position is ambiguous.

And the rest of the people and Orders in the Church are not ambiguous? I get way more ambiguity from any-given Diocesan Bishop than I get from any-given SSPX priest, but that's just my belief.

[DJMitch]

Hello Catholicmilkman, thanks for responding!
  If it is true that the Holy Father has said that Catholics can attend, and you can provide me with a valid reference for that, then the italicized word can of course be obliterated.  You ask "why not"?  Sorry I haven't been posting long enough to know how to do the cool blockquote thing.  The answer to a "why" question ought to begin with the explanatory conjunction "because", and my answer was "because it is my understanding that they are schismatic".  My understanding, let me hasten to add, is far from that of St Thomas Aquinas, and is, in fact, capable of being wrong! - much more likely to be wrong than to be right.  If what you say is true, then it is wrong, and I stand corrected.  Heaven forfend I should accuse you of lying to me or to anyone; but you may be mistaken just as I may be, and so: for never, read: not, until such a time as someone can provide a valid and certain reference that the Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church has declared it permissible for Catholics to attend such Masses,.
  As for ambiguity, your last paragraph seems to confirm what you say, as it is (I would respectfully suggest) ambiguous .
  Forgive me if I seem flippant here:

"And the rest of the people and Orders in the Church are not ambiguous?"  This would seem to imply that each and every Catholic is ambiguous.  What does that mean, to say that a person is ambiguous?  I suppose it means that their words, or actions, are ambiguous.  But it seems hyperbolical to attribute this ambiguity to "the rest of the people and Orders in the Church".

" I get way more ambiguity from any-given Diocesan Bishop than I get from any-given SSPX priest, but that's just my belief."  Well, I can neither confirm nor deny that; if it's true, I don't think it is "just your belief", because if there is a lack of clarity which means that you cannot follow what someone is trying to say, or trying not to say, then that is a real problem that does not depend on your believing it (if you see what I mean).

Yours in Christ,

David

[McMaster]

I should say that I am not yet a Catholic, but am about a quarter of a centimetre away from the Church, and please, please would you pray for me.

Welcome, and I'm praying! Would you like to say anything about what obstacles (if any) you find in the remaining 2.5 millimetres? :smile:

Blessings,

Don McMaster

[Historian]

Welcome, and I will say a prayer for you for sure!  :)

[VoxClamantis]

And the rest of the people and Orders in the Church are not ambiguous? I get way more ambiguity from any-given Diocesan Bishop than I get from any-given SSPX priest, but that's just my belief.

 
Take this sort of debate to the proper forum if y'all want to continue the discussion:

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/mb/apologia?forum=61953