What is the Churches postition on marijuana?
#41
Catholic777 Wrote:For one, they didnt have cars. Two, they did not have strong liquors. It's much harder to OD on wine than on, say, pure vodka. And three, the culture of drinking was different. Because of bacteria, because of the difficulty of getting clean water...and because stored juices ferment naturally with no cooling mechanism...alcohol was the main drink of the medieval and classical worlds. Rather low alcohol content, however. They often mixed it with their water to kill off the bacteria in the water.


I applaud you for the historicity; some people say that alcohol is intrinsically evil and should be avoided at all costs, and I use the same facts to prove that fermented drink was a necessity.  But I agree, there is something wrong with the way our society abuses alcohol.
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#42
Quote:But I agree, there is something wrong with the way our society abuses alcohol.

Not just abuses, but I'd even say with how it merely uses.

It is no longer the necessary beverage for health or sanitary reasons like it used to be, but it is still used, just..."recreationally" by people...even with 1 million deaths (just in America) in the last decade resulting from it.

"If your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out"...but of course, people like to be numbed, to be able to forget their troubles for a while, lower their "inhibitions" (read: moral vigilance), and of course...the big booze corporations love the money, not just from the sale of alcohol itself, but from the whole industry the culture of it creates. It has been absurdly tethered to ideas of fun and youthfulness and masculine bravado, for example.

Alcohol causes the deaths both of the users and innocent bystanders...and the death of even MORE souls. It's not a sin, in itself, in moderation...but we all know it certainly leads to a whole lot of sin and addiction which is a spiritual enslavement. Not to mention all the suffering and psychological damage to the user and those around them.

It is no longer necessary. And though not a sin intrinsically...like slavery, I think society should no longer tolerate it. Not all things allowed are expedient. Drink among Catholics has been nothing but a cause of scandal to everyone, people should take a stand and no longer be complicit.

The fact that a taboo has (rightly) developed around smokers while drinking is still totally acceptable...is a ridiculous and delusional displacement of priorities.

Since Prohibition "failed" it has been a third rail in our society. But, you know what? I'm touching that rail, and I dont care if I get shocked! Afterall, "this train dont carry no drinkers"...
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#43
AverageJohn Wrote:Its simple really,

One smokes weed to get high, if not and it is for medicinal use thats okay.


Good point, we do not need the state getting involved anymore than the regulations-both under EU law and here in USA with Vitamins and Herbs/supplements.God gives us the fruits of the Earth for a reason, temperance is self-Govt.
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#44
Catholic777 Wrote:
Quote:I was a cop and dealt with many drunks, so lets say alcohol is evil too and ban it.

These things are not intrinsically sinful if done in moderation. That is to say, they are not a personal sin in individual instances if done in moderation.

But I think our cultural toleration of them constitutes a "social sin" as it were, a sinful system.

25000 people are killed by drunk drivers each year. And alcohol related deaths in general are over 100000.

Seatbelts only save about 10000 lives per year, and yet we are required to wear them. But alcohol takes TEN TIMES that many lives, and society is willing to accept that as "collateral damage" so that you all can "feel good" and get "relaxed". Afterall, "I'm not going to abuse it"...well, that's what they all say. Yes, it may be some people "ruining the fun for the rest of us"...but if it saves that many lives, then suck it up. 
It is shameful that Prohibition, the moral highpoint of the otherwise dismal pit of American democracy...was repealed just because we let some gangsters undermine it.

The answer is simply that the bottle is of the devil. I mean as a social phenomenon in general even if not a personal sin for the individual in moderation.

Not all things that are allowed are expedient. Slavery certainly wasnt; it could theoretically be done morally and was in specific cases...but led, as a practical matter, to so much abuse and suffering...it was better to be rid of it.

And I feel the same way about drinking, gambling, etc. I'm not going to be a Puritan and condemn them as absolutely sinful for the individual in moderation, but as social phenomenons...they are "structures of sin".

Also, for example, casinos are really evil sin-pits like that. And while I'm not going to say that going in and spending a little money for fun on a trip to Vegas or whatever is personally sinful...it's certainly, overall, a sinful system, a "socially sinful" phenomenon.

And even if not a personal sin, I certainly dont want to be complicit in it. Alcohol, at least as practiced in America, is just part of the reign of Babylon. 

Our souls are sold over a tiny piece at a time, one little compromise at a time...


Though you make some good points, you are sounding somewhat like Victorian Calvinists...

"The answer is simply that the bottle is of the devil" ???

So too could sex, as many are addicted to that. So too food, a people struggle with that . Sprots?High risk sports?

Society and the One who rules this world is to blame. As Catholics, we need to fight against the culture, not against the props the Devil may use against us.
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#45
BTW-no I am not calling "Catholic 777" a Protestant, but pointing out his opinions seem to drift toward the Manichean/Gnostic/Prot everything is evil.

For some, alcohol could be. For me, a ocasional mixed drink or wine is fine. I may have 1 drink every 10-14 days, if,,,,,,
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#46
Zedta Wrote:For me the answer is fundimental: If the thing that you are doing gets in the way with your ability to worship God, it is not a good thing.

I felt a kind of hinderence an wall, if you will, between me and the true spiritual state while at prayer and under the influence of THC.  I avoid it for that reason, just as I do while under the influence of alcohol.

JMHO


Zedta

[Image: comp.gif]


Good points!!!!
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#47
ServantofGuadalupe Wrote:
DaveC Wrote:Watching an hour of TV is likely more harmful than smoking marijuana.

When you try to define what a drug is...alot of things become drugs. Actually, almost everything becomes a drug. What is the Church's teaching on chocolate?
Just a note... in the Bible witchcraft and drugs such as marijuana are synonmous...


Is marijuana specifically in the Bible??

To note, Satanists use wine in their ceremonies, though of course, it always remains wine.Christ used wine. So, carrying out this logic, is well, scary....[Image: afraidsmiley.gif]
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#48
DJMitch Wrote:
Quote:Some civil laws do not bind in conscience. If you break them you do not sin BUT if you are caught you are obliged to submit to the penalty.


Could someone provide confirmation of this statement?


Civil laws in Massachusetts state men can marry men.Civil laws in all 50 states says you can divorce your spouse and immediately "marry" another.
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#49
ServantofGuadalupe Wrote:If you buy absynthe in the USA it is without the herbs that belong in it, one being wormwood. Google it and you will find instructions.....


And.....??

maybe God will use this herb to poison the waters. Until then, if for some odd/rare occasion I actually see this herb and use it, am I possessed???? Serving evil by having a liqueur??

[Image: 200px-Absinthe-glass.jpg]
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#50
Quote:So too could sex, as many are addicted to that. So too food, a people struggle with that. Sports? High risk sports?

Society and the One who rules this world is to blame. As Catholics, we need to fight against the culture, not against the props the Devil may use against us.

It's a simple question of controlling the use of harmful things.

Your attitude is akin to "guns dont kill people, people kill people"...yes, people WITH guns. If gun laws were stricter in the USA...there would be fewer deaths and, I suppose correspondingly, fewer murders. They do not make society safer, statistically proven, no matter what NRA propoganda tells you. "But if everyone had one" is a useless hypothetical as that isnt the case.

One thing about alcohol is that it hurts innocent bystanders. Food doesnt do that. Addiction to sports doesnt.

Sex...should be regulated. An addiction to marital sex...well, if both spouses are okay with it...fine; then the State has better things to worry about, let their spiritual directors or therapists handle it. But fornication and adultery and stuff SHOULD be proscribed by law, simply because it can get a third party (a baby) involved and, in the current state of things, lead to abortion (whether legal or illegal).

High Risk sports should also be (and are) regulated.

I may be able to handle owning a flamethrower...but I dont think they should be allowed just because a lot of people cant.

I heard a quote where someone said, "the rules exist because they make sense for x% of people. And what about the other y%?? Well, everybody thinks they're part of that y%"

With alcohol, it is not a tiny minority of people who handle it irresponsibly. The evil resulting is not proportional to the good. It is a significant enough group of irresponsible-types to cause 100000 deaths each year, and who knows how many lost souls. And while you might think saving souls is not the State's job...saving lives certainly is. There is a big enough "x%" to make banning it as much as possible a prudent course of action. Because everyone thinks they're in that responsible "y%". Which may even be a majority...but is that really worth 100000 deaths?
I've heard that perhaps a compromise (for all drugs, not just alcohol) would be instead of banning them completely or allowing them completely...to regulate them and to have people need a license to buy them. And if you are ever caught publically drunk or high, especially driving, they take it away. For minor infractions for, like, a year or whatever. For major...forever. Perhaps it would electronically track how much you had purchased recently and have a cap limit on that. It's an interesting idea, I just wonder how they'd make sure only responsible people got the license. Surely some would slip through the cracks...but still, it's something to consider.
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