Fat (need to lose some?)
#21
My opinion is that site is unnecessarily inflammatory, eg., comparing Atkins with tobacco companies. As a general rule, I don't trust anti-anything sites because there isn't much point in reading propaganda.
 
The information on this page is patently false. I am a participant in a long term study and have been for a few years, and will be for a few more, at least. It's called the CCARBS study. I have to periodically get weighed at a doctor's office and fill out diet inventories.
 
I realize that there are people who do very well on the vegetarian type diets. The problem I have with them is that those who adhere to them are a bit condescending at times with those of us who don't use them. I tried the low-fat type and I gained weight, because my body type is not geared for that type of diet. If I eat pasta, I am going to swell up like a balloon from water retention.
 
Here's an interesting experience. I have a friend who is a vegetarian. She is overweight and has the worst health of anyone I know. She has respiratory allergies so bad that she has to get shots and breathing treatments all summer long, and she has such a screwed up thyroid that she has to get radiation therapy to control it. Then, Miss Picture of Health had the nerve to tell me that my kids who get sinusitis in the fall are sick because they eat meat. LOL! My sides still hurt from that one.
 
Most people who have issues with Atkins have only read the bad press, not the website or books. I know that it is not an unhealthy diet for many people, just as a vegetarian style is not unhealthy for many people. And some people do just fine in between, but they tend to be young and active. Eventually, age and body type catch up with you.
S.A.G. ~ Kathy ~ Sanguine-choleric. Have fun...or else.

Adoramus te, Christe, et benedicimus tibi, quia per sanctam crucem tuam redemisti mundum.
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#22
AdoramusTeChriste Wrote:My opinion is that site is unnecessarily inflammatory, eg., comparing Atkins with tobacco companies. As a general rule, I don't trust anti-anything sites because there isn't much point in reading propaganda.
 
The information on this page is patently false. I am a participant in a long term study and have been for a few years, and will be for a few more, at least. It's called the CCARBS study. I have to periodically get weighed at a doctor's office and fill out diet inventories.
 
I realize that there are people who do very well on the vegetarian type diets. The problem I have with them is that those who adhere to them are a bit condescending at times with those of us who don't use them. I tried the low-fat type and I gained weight, because my body type is not geared for that type of diet. If I eat pasta, I am going to swell up like a balloon from water retention.
 
Here's an interesting experience. I have a friend who is a vegetarian. She is overweight and has the worst health of anyone I know. She has respiratory allergies so bad that she has to get shots and breathing treatments all summer long, and she has such a screwed up thyroid that she has to get radiation therapy to control it. Then, Miss Picture of Health had the nerve to tell me that my kids who get sinusitis in the fall are sick because they eat meat. LOL! My sides still hurt from that one.
 
Most people who have issues with Atkins have only read the bad press, not the website or books. I know that it is not an unhealthy diet for many people, just as a vegetarian style is not unhealthy for many people. And some people do just fine in between, but they tend to be young and active. Eventually, age and body type catch up with you.

i did not see anything inflammatory about the website. i wondered though, because there are plenty of other sites which frown on vegetarian/vegans.

in my experience, it is just the opposite. its the meat eaters who find us vegans to be offensive by not eating their dead animals. remember, you guys can eat our food, but we cannot eat yours. since i abstain from meat, that is somehow offensive to others who take pride in being 'unhealthy'. to each his own.

about your vegetarian friend, my guess is that she eats a lot of soy products, (e.g. fake meats, soy milk/ice cream). there is a great myth the soy industry has made here in the usa. but soy is totally unfit for human consumption. i would direct her to this site for more info:

http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/


though your friend may have a point about the flu shots. but, to each his own.



i, being male, do not understand why the weight issue is such a touchy topic for the ladies. god makes us in different shapes and sizes. we are not just material. but i think that we must distinguish between a fat woman, and a glutton. one is fat by nature, the other by sinfulness. we should hunger after righteousness, and not food.
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#23
ernestus Wrote:i did not see anything inflammatory about the website.

 
I did. I think comparing the work of Dr. Atkins (RIP+) to tobacco company antics is very inflammatory.
 
ernestus Wrote:i wondered though, because there are plenty of other sites which frown on vegetarian/vegans.

 
I haven't seen them, nor do I care to. It's probably just propaganda anyway.

ernestus Wrote:in my experience, it is just the opposite. its the meat eaters who find us vegans to be offensive by not eating their dead animals. remember, you guys can eat our food, but we cannot eat yours. since i abstain from meat, that is somehow offensive to others who take pride in being 'unhealthy'. to each his own.

 
You abstain from meat by choice. It is not a matter of "cannot." On the other hand, many people have serious allergies to plant based foods. Wheat and nut allergies are extremely common. Meat allergies are not. It seems prideful to me that those who have the luxury of choice, choose to cast stones. So, yes, to each his own.

ernestus Wrote:about your vegetarian friend, my guess is that she eats a lot of soy products, (e.g. fake meats, soy milk/ice cream). there is a great myth the soy industry has made here in the usa. but soy is totally unfit for human consumption. i would direct her to this site for more info:

http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/

 
I asked her about that, she says no. Yet, I don't see how she could not be. Perhaps she is just not reading the labels. I agree with you 100% that soy is unfit for human consumption. I complained at Atkins nutritionals about all the soy in their junk food. (I never eat those stupid bars, any brand.)


ernestus Wrote:though your friend may have a point about the flu shots. but, to each his own.
 
??? I didn't mention flu shots. Never had one, never will.


ernestus Wrote:i, being male, do not understand why the weight issue is such a touchy topic for the ladies. god makes us in different shapes and sizes. we are not just material. but i think that we must distinguish between a fat woman, and a glutton. one is fat by nature, the other by sinfulness. we should hunger after righteousness, and not food.

 
I don't think the topic is touchy just for ladies. [Image: wench.gif] After all, I think a guy started the thread.
 
There are serious health issues in the mix, for some people. I have hypertension in my family history. My sister, who prefers the lowfat type diet has high blood pressure and high cholesterol. I have neither, and I credit the effort I put into following the low carb type diet. Another condition that is vastly inmproved by a low carb diet is diabetes. Insulin production stabilizes when the body doesn't have to process glycogen (simple carbs). And as I have already stated, my husband benefitted from the Atkins diet through reduced triglyceride levels- an important risk factor for heart disease.
 
I was getting close to hypertension, and interestingly, (for MattC) one treatment of hypertension is diuretics. Diuretics work by excreting water that is retained in tissues, so the heart and kidneys do not have to work so hard. The problem with diuretics is that they deplete the body of minerals like potassium that are essential for a healthy heart. What a vicious circle, and I am very happy to have avoided it.
 
I have a family that needs me. I don't think it is a matter of vanity or sinful to take care of ones health.
S.A.G. ~ Kathy ~ Sanguine-choleric. Have fun...or else.

Adoramus te, Christe, et benedicimus tibi, quia per sanctam crucem tuam redemisti mundum.
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#24
DominusTecum Wrote:I have also been under the impression that weight loss of any more than 2lb/week was very bad for you. How do you reconcile this fact with such rapid weight loss on the Atkins diet?

2lbs a week is the best goal. Anymore than that and you are probably losing allot of muscle. (Yet I wouldn't worry to much if you are losing 3lbs a week.) It's when you start getting to the 5-10lbs a week mark that you know what you are doing is completely unhealthy. Think about it 5lbs weight loss a week means you've used an excess of 17,500 cals that week. (1lb = 3,500 cals). A 17,500 calorie deficit in a week means you've used an average of 2,500 cals more than you've been taking in thruogh food per week This is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much. You shoud really never go much over a 1000-1500 calorie deficiet. (-1500 a day would equal 3lbs loss that week) So say that you are spossed to eat 3000 cals a day to stay at the same weight(only very big people would have this as there BMR). Then you add some excercise so your "stay the same weight" calorie need goes to 3500 cals/day. You'd have to eat at 1000 cals a day to lose 5lbs a week. That is just obsene.

Personally I don't think atkins should be used by anyone who is just beginning. Its a quick fix and should not be a life change. Atkins should only be used for a short period of time. People should learn how to eat for the rest of thier lives. They shouldnt go on a diet and then figure that they can go off a diet at a latter date. What needs to happen is a total 100% life change with the way that people think about food.

At the same time I think that people can do things in the intial fat loss period that they may not have to do latter on. Eating more than 3 meals a day is a good example. You don't really have to keep doing this after you lose your unwanted fat.

Atkins is a good idea for bodybuilers. They use carb depletion techniques, ect, to get down to sub 5% body fat levels before compitions. It can also be useful to do things like this to get you over a platue in fat loss. Check out the forums at www.steroid.com (These guys are obsessed but they do know quite a bit abut nutrition.)

Anyways what I'm trying to say is the goal is to get to something that you can stick to for life. You need to become educated about nutrition and then apply this education to your daily life. Atkins is the worst idea for people who are not even going to study it and find out why things like ketosis make one "lose wieght". (Weight loss is actualy an extreamly unhealthy goal. Fat loss/ muscle preservation should always be the goal.)

Seriously, stay away from atkins if you want to get healthy. Join the forums at www.johnstonefitness.com and learn a way to eat that isnt a quick fix.but rather something that would be good to stick to for the rest of your life.
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#25
Quote:Personally I don't think atkins should be used by anyone who is just beginning. Its a quick fix and should not be a life change. Atkins should only be used for a short period of time. People should learn how to eat for the rest of thier lives. They shouldnt go on a diet and then figure that they can go off a diet at a latter date. What needs to happen is a total 100% life change with the way that people think about food.
Actually, Brogan, if you look at the Atkins plan beyond induction, you will find a graduated life long plan that works for many, many people. When I was working with a trainer, I gained weight and couldn't lose the excess water that was saturating my system and making my heart and kidneys work harder. My doctor actually put me on a diuretic. I was able to throw them away after I began the Atkins induction phase, which lasts only 2 weeks.
 
Quote:Anyways what I'm trying to say is the goal is to get to something that you can stick to for life. You need to become educated about nutrition and then apply this education to your daily life. Atkins is the worst idea for people who are not even going to study it and find out why things like ketosis make one "lose wieght". (Weight loss is actualy an extreamly unhealthy goal. Fat loss/ muscle preservation should always be the goal.)
 
Not everyone who needs or wants to lose weight is having the same metabolic issues. I am going to be 47 soon and I just can't eat the carbs that I could when I was younger. I have studied the physiology issues, in fact I am in a phsiology class at present. I can assure you that a person will lose excess water and fat on Atkins without knowing the mechanics of it. My professor explained it very carefully, and it is solely the ingestion of carbs that creates glucose, and it is glucose that is stored as fat in adipose tissues- not fats and not protein. The reduction in carbs means that glycolysis is bypassed, and the body begins to use fat for energy because it doesn't have the glucose constantly streaming into it.
 
Quote:  Seriously, stay away from atkins if you want to get healthy.
 
I suggest you read up on it before you denounce it. I know I am much healthier because of Dr. Atkins' plan. I have personally heard several doctors and nutritionists admit that it works and works in the long term for many, many people.
S.A.G. ~ Kathy ~ Sanguine-choleric. Have fun...or else.

Adoramus te, Christe, et benedicimus tibi, quia per sanctam crucem tuam redemisti mundum.
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#26
AdoramusTeChriste Wrote:I did. I think comparing the work of Dr. Atkins (RIP+) to tobacco company antics is very inflammatory.


if the shoe fits, wear it. i am not for or against atkins either way.

Quote:You abstain from meat by choice. It is not a matter of "cannot." On the other hand, many people have serious allergies to plant based foods. Wheat and nut allergies are extremely common. Meat allergies are not. It seems prideful to me that those who have the luxury of choice, choose to cast stones. So, yes, to each his own.



most people are not allergic to meat, but to the hormones, anti-biotics, and other nasties which cycles through the food-chain. this 'allergy' manifests itself in various diseases, which the most common these days is cancer.

pride is a common characterisic of us all, veg and non-veg alike.


Quote: I complained at Atkins nutritionals about all the soy in their junk food. (I never eat those stupid bars, any brand.)



im sure atkins is aware of this situation, but chooses to go where the dollars are, instead of alerting its consumers. its odd that a diet would allow for 'junk food' in the first place.



Quote:I don't think the topic is touchy just for ladies. [Image: wench.gif] After all, I think a guy started the thread.


okay. you're right. but its more common to see a skinny guy with a fat girl because most men dont want a girl who only eats from the salad menu, and is always nagging you about if she is overweight. most men dont appear to have such concerns about their weight.




Quote:There are serious health issues in the mix, for some people. I have hypertension in my family history.

so ive noticed :)


Quote:one treatment of hypertension is diuretics. Diuretics work by excreting water that is retained in tissues, so the heart and kidneys do not have to work so hard.

is that like dianetics? there has to be a connection there somewhere.



Quote:What a vicious circle, and I am very happy to have avoided it.

yes. i think that turned out better for the both of us.

Quote:I have a family that needs me. I don't think it is a matter of vanity or sinful to take care of ones health.

yes. in all seriousness, i concur.
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#27
Quote: is that like dianetics? there has to be a connection there somewhere.


[Image: rofl.gif][Image: tongue.gif][Image: rofl.gif]

Here is an article about different metabolic types, for anyone who is interested.

S.A.G. ~ Kathy ~ Sanguine-choleric. Have fun...or else.

Adoramus te, Christe, et benedicimus tibi, quia per sanctam crucem tuam redemisti mundum.
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#28
AdoramusTeChriste Wrote:

Quote:Anyways what I'm trying to say is the goal is to get to something that you can stick to for life. You need to become educated about nutrition and then apply this education to your daily life. Atkins is the worst idea for people who are not even going to study it and find out why things like ketosis make one "lose wieght". (Weight loss is actualy an extreamly unhealthy goal. Fat loss/ muscle preservation should always be the goal.)


Not everyone who needs or wants to lose weight is having the same metabolic issues. I am going to be 47 soon and I just can't eat the carbs that I could when I was younger. I have studied the physiology issues, in fact I am in a phsiology class at present. I can assure you that a person will lose excess water and fat on Atkins without knowing the mechanics of it. My professor explained it very carefully, and it is solely the ingestion of carbs that creates glucose, and it is glucose that is stored as fat in adipose tissues- not fats and not protein. The reduction in carbs means that glycolysis is bypassed, and the body begins to use fat for energy because it doesn't have the glucose constantly streaming into it.



Bumping an old thread, this is not actually true. Well at least it is not the complete truth. When you eat any type of sugar your body converts it to glucose to use as energy. This raises your blood sugar levels which can kill you if they get too high. So if you have injested more sugar than your body can use at any particular time it will store the excess sugar as fat.

The solution is to eat really slow digesting sugars like oats, brown rice, sweet potatos. There are many sites where you can read about the glycemic responce from particular foods.

Let's say your body needs 300 cals of energy to function properly for 3 hours. For that 3 hours you would want to fuel your body with 300 calories of a slow digesting sugar source so that nothing will be stored as fat. If you eat 300 cals of oats for example maybe only 100 cals worth of those oats have been converted to energy in the first hour. Then during the 2nd hour after eating them another 100 calories worth is converted into energy. Thus none of the glucose derived from this carb ever has the chance to be stored as fat; it is immediately used to fuel your body.

If you ate something with a high glysymic responce all of it would be digested at once and becuase your body only needs 100 of the 300 calories consumed during the first hour it will store those other 200 calories as fat. Thats why you shouldnt eat simple sugars. But sugar in itself is needed for muscle repair and proper brain function. Cutting it out completely is not a good idea.

I bumped this thread becuase I'm about to get serious again about getting in shape. I've done nothing since about novermber (no lifting, running, and eating terribly) and I've gained back some fat, lost some muscle. I'm about 190 now but what is worse is I've probably gone up 10% in body fat. Laziness always ends up requiring more work.

Anyways, anyone want to go into super bust out healthy mode with me?
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#29
In health class we learned about the Atkins diet and another such diet from the 70s, which is extremely similar to the Atkins diet. According to my professor, low carb diets help people lose weight quickly, because it causes the body to go through Ketosis. The Ketones released in Ketosis are very damaging to the Kidneys etc.
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#30
brogan Wrote:Bumping an old thread, this is not actually true. Well at least it is not the complete truth. When you eat any type of sugar your body converts it to glucose to use as energy. This raises your blood sugar levels which can kill you if they get too high. So if you have injested more sugar than your body can use at any particular time it will store the excess sugar as fat.

Since the thread is about weight loss, it was presumed by me that stored fat is a problem for those who are posting here. To restate, it is indeed glucose that is stored as fat; not fat, and not protein. If you (or anyone) has excess body fat, it is coming from carbs.
 
brogan Wrote:The solution is to eat really slow digesting sugars like oats, brown rice, sweet potatos. There are many sites where you can read about the glycemic responce from particular foods.
 

 
If it works for you, fine. But it doesn't work for everyone. There are sugars available in lower carb vegetables and fruits and they are sufficient once one has their metabolism in check. When adding carbs back into the diet (ala Atkins), the ones you mention are starchy enough to cause problems for sustaining/maintaining weight loss.

 
brogan Wrote:Let's say your body needs 300 cals of energy to function properly for 3 hours. For that 3 hours you would want to fuel your body with 300 calories of a slow digesting sugar source so that nothing will be stored as fat. If you eat 300 cals of oats for example maybe only 100 cals worth of those oats have been converted to energy in the first hour. Then during the 2nd hour after eating them another 100 calories worth is converted into energy. Thus none of the glucose derived from this carb ever has the chance to be stored as fat; it is immediately used to fuel your body.

If you ate something with a high glysymic responce all of it would be digested at once and becuase your body only needs 100 of the 300 calories consumed during the first hour it will store those other 200 calories as fat. Thats why you shouldnt eat simple sugars. But sugar in itself is needed for muscle repair and proper brain function. Cutting it out completely is not a good idea.
 

 
This reminds me of the diet that the weight-training crowd likes to promote. I gained weight on it, and I think that most women would. It is not a weight-loss diet. As far as I know, it doesn't even claim to be.

 
brogan Wrote:I bumped this thread becuase I'm about to get serious again about getting in shape. I've done nothing since about novermber (no lifting, running, and eating terribly) and I've gained back some fat, lost some muscle. I'm about 190 now but what is worse is I've probably gone up 10% in body fat. Laziness always ends up requiring more work.

Anyways, anyone want to go into super bust out healthy mode with me?

 
Best of luck on your endeavor! [Image: smile.gif]
 
I am going to try to lose some hibernation fat as well... too much time at class and in front of the computer coupled with the convenience of junk food has taken its toll. [Image: wink.gif]
S.A.G. ~ Kathy ~ Sanguine-choleric. Have fun...or else.

Adoramus te, Christe, et benedicimus tibi, quia per sanctam crucem tuam redemisti mundum.
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