Refusing vaccines
#21
sbmg Wrote:This may or may not be true; I don't know.


No one does. It doesn't get studied. There is too much money at stake.

sbmg Wrote:But children don't die from allergies and asthma.

Yes they do.

sbmg Wrote:And usually they outgrow the asthma.

Not always.

sbmg Wrote:They can, however, die from measles, diphtheria, rubella, et al.

Actually, in populations where the incidence of the diseases had been common, most kids recovered quite well. Those who received treatment were the ones who died most often. Part of the reason is because re-exposure keeps the immune system prepared for a specific virus. One of the (ignored by the CDC and FDA) predicted side effects of the chicken pox vaccine is shingles in adults. Recurrent exposure to the virus keeps it in check.


sbmg Wrote:It wasn't unusual. I think saving thousands of children's lives is a fair trade.

I think that is a very irresponsible and cavalier attitude and I cannot understand how people in the field of medicine can be so insensitive to the segment of the population who will die due to vaccination. In fact, vaccination is itself a vector for disease. Jenner and Salk caused much more destruction than they stopped. What really improved public health was civil engineering.

It appears your mind is already made up, so I'll leave you to your belief, though I wonder why you bothered to start the thread if you're unwilling to look more deeply into the issue. I realize that you have to memorize what you are told to get licensed, but please, for the sake of the people you intend to treat someday, do not check your brain at the door. In the area of health science, dogma is a very dangerous thing.
S.A.G. ~ Kathy ~ Sanguine-choleric. Have fun...or else.

Adoramus te, Christe, et benedicimus tibi, quia per sanctam crucem tuam redemisti mundum.
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#22
Just one more point to address:

Quote:For my nursing research class, we tore apart the whole process for the vaccine testing. It was the largest medical study in the country (1954), a double-blind control study with 1.8 million children. This means that half got the vaccine, and half did not (the control group), and nobody knew which was which until the study was over. Others that do not have a formal group of participants for "control" compare the disease rates of their participants, which mirror the general population as closely as possible, to that of the population at large. That's the biggest "control" group you're ever going to get.

How long did they follow the groups? Not very long, and they never do. If you look into the issue, you will find that there is much negligence on the part of pioneers, producers, and governments. For example, did you know that people who were vaccinated with the Salk vaccine are at a higher risk for many cancers due to contamination with the monkey virus SV-40. Even after the contamination was discovered, the tainted vaccines were distributed and used on children in the US and in other countries. Think it can't happen again? What about thimerosol? Lily knew for decades that it was much too toxic to be used safely, yet it is still in use. They "voluntarily" stopped using it in infant vaccines, but that was to avoid a recall... a recall that never happened. All the mercury-laden vaccines that had been produced before their self-imposed moratorium remained in use, courtesy of those who are the true beneficiaries of mandatory vaccination: Big Pharma.
S.A.G. ~ Kathy ~ Sanguine-choleric. Have fun...or else.

Adoramus te, Christe, et benedicimus tibi, quia per sanctam crucem tuam redemisti mundum.
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#23
AdoramusTeChriste Wrote:Just one more point to address:

Quote:For my nursing research class, we tore apart the whole process for the vaccine testing. It was the largest medical study in the country (1954), a double-blind control study with 1.8 million children. This means that half got the vaccine, and half did not (the control group), and nobody knew which was which until the study was over. Others that do not have a formal group of participants for "control" compare the disease rates of their participants, which mirror the general population as closely as possible, to that of the population at large. That's the biggest "control" group you're ever going to get.

How long did they follow the groups? Not very long, and they never do. If you look into the issue, you will find that there is much negligence on the part of pioneers, producers, and governments. For example, did you know that people who were vaccinated with the Salk vaccine are at a higher risk for many cancers due to contamination with the monkey virus SV-40. Even after the contamination was discovered, the tainted vaccines were distributed and used on children in the US and in other countries. Think it can't happen again? What about thimerosol? Lily knew for decades that it was much too toxic to be used safely, yet it is still in use. They "voluntarily" stopped using it in infant vaccines, but that was to avoid a recall... a recall that never happened. All the mercury-laden vaccines that had been produced before their self-imposed moratorium remained in use, courtesy of those who are the true beneficiaries of mandatory vaccination: Big Pharma.
 I was seven years old in '54 and was actually one of those 1.8 million children. Interestingly enough, there was no 'informed consent' nor, indeed, parental consent at all. My mum first found out about it when one of the neighbours mentioned that the children in my class had been vaccinated. I don't recall any extended 'follow up', but what I do recall is that within a year or two I never knew another person to have polio, tho' by then, I already had several classmates/family friends who were partially or totally paralysed from the disease, which we called 'infantile paralysis' in those dark ages.
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#24
I brought up this discussion a few weeks back on another forum. While some vaccines are derived from human embryos, there are many that are not (and many of the "tainted" ones also have alternatives that were derived from animal tissues).

Here's a list, categorized by disease, drug name, and manufacturer (and when I say "approved" I mean approved by the FDA (US) for use):

Vaccines Made from Human Embryos

Polio

Poliovax (polio-E-IPV): Manufactured by Pasteur Merieux Conaught Labs. Made from human cell line MRC5.

Measles, Mumps, and Rubella (MMR)

MMR II: Manufactured by Merck Sharp & Dohme. Made from line WI-38.
(Note: The MMR is a combination of three vaccines. The measles and mumps vaccines are the same ones listed under the "Alternatives" section. The Rubella vaccine is the one made from line WI-38).

Rabies

Imovax HDCV: Manufactured by Pasteur Merieux Connaught. Line MRC-5.

Hepatitis A

Havarix: Manufactured by Glasko-Smith-Kline. Uses line MRC-5.
VAQTA: Manufactured by Merck Sharp & Dohme. Uses line MRC-5.
TWINRIX: Manufactured by Glasko-Smith-Kline. Uses MRC-5.
(Note TWINRIX is a joint Hep A and Hep B drug. The HEP B portion is not made from human stem cell lines, and no HEP B drug is made from human embryos. The HEP A portion is Havarix).

Chickenpox (Varicella)

Varivax or Varicella: Manufactured by Merck Sharp & Dohme. Uses WI-38.

Alternatives

Polio

IPOL: Manufactured by Pasteur-Merieux Connaught Labs. Monkey kidneys.
Orimune: Lerderle Labs. Monkey kidney cells. (Note: Drug is given orally).

Measles

Attenuvax: Manufactured by Merck Sharpe & Dohme. Chick embryos.

Mumps

Mumpsvax: Manufactured by Merck Sharpe & Dohme. Chick embryos.

Rubella

No licensed alternative.

Rabies

RVA: Manufactured by Glasko-Smith-Kline. Rhesus monkey.
RabAvert (PECE): Manufactured by Chirion Bering Gmbl & Co. Chick embryo.

Hepatitis A

No licensed alternative.

Chickenpox (Varicella)

No licensed alternative.

All other current vaccines are not made from human stem cell lines.
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#25
My oldest son had a vaccine reaction at the 4 month vaccines and went from being a focused boy (you know how cute 3-4 month old babies are) to being ADD and unfocused and incapable of eye contact.  And guess what - who has to pay the price?  Him and me - him with the frustration of never being able to focus or concentrate and me for having to try to educate and raise this now nine-year old child who would be on the short list for ritalin with anyone who didn't care as much as I do.  After his reaction, I spent copius amounts of time reading and researching and am livid with the amount of cover-up and lies that have been foisted on unsuspecting parents.  Merck got their money...that's all they care about.

Just in Feb, 2008 the US goverment conceded the Vaccine -Autism relationship in a the Court of Federal Claims.  The claim (one of 4,900 autism cases) was conceded by the Department of Health and Human Services that the vaccine had caused the child's autism.  The Huffington Post was one of the few papers who actually covered the case.  Do a web search.

Also, from the AP April 9, 2008
"Nearly 6,600 people became sick with the mumps, mostly in eight Midwest states, and the hardest hit geoup was college students ages 18-24.  Of those in the group who knew whether they had been vaccinated, 84 percent had had two mumps shots, according to the study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and state health departments.  That two-dose vaccine failure startled public health experts, who hadn't expected immunity to wane so soon- if at all."

Read Dr. Medelsohns books (How to Raise a healthy Child in SPite of Your Doctor), L. Horowitz,  and even Doctor Sears, and you will see that measles, mumps, chicken pox etc are really quite harmless illnesses that RARELY cause death - that is simply a scare tactic.  You will also find from the CDC's own website that these illnesses still occur in almost totally vaccinated populations, meaning that the vaccination affords no real protection.

And yes the Vatican's statement about the morality was amiguous at best, but who can really look to the Vatican these days as a moral guide?  The fact that some poor innocent child's cell lines are being used by the incestuous Planned parenthood/Pharma relationship to derive profit is nauseating, and morally - this family will have nothing to do with it.  Fortunately, our pediatrition agrees and stays current on the petitions before the FDA to remove these vaccines from the market.
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#26
Our 4 children have not received the chicken pox on rubella vaccine for the reasons discussed. The SSPX Monthly magazine, The Angelus, printed a very exhaustive and well-researched article a few years ago on this topic. Here is a link to it:
http://www.cogforlife.org/thevaccinationquestion.htm

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#27
A MD friend of mine is getting big into reseraching this.He has a interesting chart. In 1964 (his birth year), he had a total of something like 4-6 shots in first 6+ yrs of life.Now you get like 20+ before you can walk. Autism is on sharp rise as well as other neurological and cognitive disorders.

Hmm.......

Many are filled with high levels of mercury and most are filled with formaldihide (the same junk you get pumped up with after mortician gets a hold of you.)
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#28
SmileBugMG Wrote:[quote='AdoramusTeChriste']

 I think saving thousands of children's lives is a fair trade.


Most women will cling to safety over fighting a depopulation program. Men resist, women often do not. A "fair trade" is not the explosion of autism, etc and 5-6x the vaccines for chidlren under 2. Now they are pushing a vaccine for the pelvic cancer in teenage women, yet it ahs been proven dangerous and the disease has been around for ever.

That is the plan, dredge up a disease, push in 24/7 all over news and scare the hell outof people. Then intorduce a vaccine.

It makes corporations rich and many damage body, which makes the depopulation crowd happy.Can't have those big, Catholic, home schooling families now!! They might resist culture-of-death and think.

Not trying tobe mean SmileBug, but there is a much bigger-& darker-agenda afoot.
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#29
quoprimumV

my sister-in-law 20 yrs ago had ahealthy baby boy, he got his multiple vaccines and on the way home, he died in his car seat.

She is convinced, as a mother and nurse, that the child died as a reaction to the massive amounts of mercury and such. A few links about autism.Also, Alex Jones does have good, concrete research on this topic, as does Devvy Kidd

Adventures in Autism: Jenny McCarthy on Oprah: Vaccine Injury Finally
Sep 19, 2007 ... Yesterday, after 22 years, Oprah finally talked about vaccine injured children when she interviewed Hollywood Moms, Jenny McCarthy and Holly ...
adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2007/09/jenny-mccarthy-on-oprah-vaccine-injury.html - 131k - Cached - Similar pages
Jenny McCarthy on Oprah Discussing Vaccines and Autism
Sep 18, 2007 ... Jenny McCarthy, actress and author of a new book, appeared on today's Oprah television program, along with Holly Robinson Peete, ...
www.planetc1.com/cgi-bin/n/v.cgi?c=1&id=1190173812 - 20k - Cached - Similar pages
Essential Emmes: Jenny McCarthy, Vaccine-Autism and the TRUTH
Sep 26, 2007 ... Therefore when Jenny McCarthy appears on TV and claims her son became autistic from vaccine injury, I know this is a fact as much as I know ...
essentialemmes.blogspot.com/2007/09/when-you-know-how-mississippi-is.html - 89k - Cached - Similar pages
11Alive.com | Atlanta, GA | McCarthy: Vaccines Cause Autism
Nov 22, 2007 ... Jenny McCarthy makes a celebrity-worthy entrance for the interview ... It could be a child simply overwhelmed by too many vaccines at once. ...
www.11alive.com/news/article_news.aspx?storyid=106720 - 125k - Cached - Similar pages
Jenny McCarthy vs the CDC
Nov 10, 2007 ... I having been an anti-vaccine, anti-thimerosol advocate for many years became keenly interested in the show when Jenny McCarthy openly ...
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#30
SmileBugMG Wrote:I'm in a public health nursing class right now, and for my clinical I'm working at the county health department.  We're doing a lot with promoting vaccinations.  I've heard a few traditional Catholics say they are against vaccinations, but I never understood why.

Gardasil would be a horse of a different color, and may be better discussed in a different thread.  I'm primarily interested in things like chicken pox, polio, measles/mumps/rubella.  Childhood diseases that were once common and sometimes deadly.

So why would anyone be morally opposed to vaccines?  Has the Church said anything about this?  I couldn't find anything, myself.


Again, not tryingto attack you at all, but do not believe the hype they are selling you in your classes.It is about moeny and control.There is a sort of brainwashing in medical-related courses. As there can be in any given field (I have a BS in Criminal Justice, somewhat bad yrs ago, but now.......[Image: liar.gif][Image: sad.gif][Image: bawl.gif]).

The SSPX article mentioned earlier is good, have read excerpts.......
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