Prospective Questions on Conflict in Marriage.
#41
veritas Wrote:
PanisAngelicus Wrote:"yes deep down I love you but I REALLY think it's RETARTED you want me to iron your SOCKS buddy" *insert incoherent mumblings* or w/e etc.

[Image: rofl.gif][Image: nonsumdignus.gif][Image: rofl.gif][Image: nonsumdignus.gif][Image: rofl.gif][Image: nonsumdignus.gif][Image: rofl.gif]

Wives have told me about requests to iron underwear and sheets, too!
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#42
DarkKnight Wrote:
veritas Wrote:
PanisAngelicus Wrote:"yes deep down I love you but I REALLY think it's RETARTED you want me to iron your SOCKS buddy" *insert incoherent mumblings* or w/e etc.

[Image: rofl.gif][Image: nonsumdignus.gif][Image: rofl.gif][Image: nonsumdignus.gif][Image: rofl.gif][Image: nonsumdignus.gif][Image: rofl.gif]

Wives have told me about requests to iron underwear and sheets, too!

Really? Why? Why does anyone want ironed underwear?
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#43
Satori Wrote:does anyone want ironed underwear?

Mama did it.[Image: baby2.gif]

One good dose of starch should set things right though.
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#44
DarkKnight Wrote:
veritas Wrote:
PanisAngelicus Wrote:"yes deep down I love you but I REALLY think it's RETARTED you want me to iron your SOCKS buddy" *insert incoherent mumblings* or w/e etc.

[Image: rofl.gif][Image: nonsumdignus.gif][Image: rofl.gif][Image: nonsumdignus.gif][Image: rofl.gif][Image: nonsumdignus.gif][Image: rofl.gif]

Wives have told me about requests to iron underwear and sheets, too!

I've ironed sheets before.  My grandma was a seamstress so she ironed pretty much everything.

Though, my mom never ironed sheets.  But she did iron my dad's handkerchiefs.
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#45
QuisUtDeus Wrote:
DarkKnight Wrote:
veritas Wrote:
PanisAngelicus Wrote:"yes deep down I love you but I REALLY think it's RETARTED you want me to iron your SOCKS buddy" *insert incoherent mumblings* or w/e etc.

[Image: rofl.gif][Image: nonsumdignus.gif][Image: rofl.gif][Image: nonsumdignus.gif][Image: rofl.gif][Image: nonsumdignus.gif][Image: rofl.gif]

Wives have told me about requests to iron underwear and sheets, too!

I've ironed sheets before.  My grandma was a seamstress so she ironed pretty much everything.

Though, my mom never ironed sheets.  But she did iron my dad's handkerchiefs.

My grandmother and great grandmother starched and ironed everything.

I couldn't even tell you where my iron is at the moment (come on, its summer.)

I'm an embarrassment to Mexican-American matriarchs everywhere.
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#46
Haha. Luckily for us all, I love ironing, so that doesn't seem like a prospective problem.
To get a little more serious again, if I may...

QuisUtDeus Wrote:Die unto yourself.  ...in reality, we aren't entitled to much from our spouses.  Sure, the marital debt, faithfulness, etc., but we aren't entitled to affection, smiles, flowers and gifts, a happy disposition, etc.  However, it is our duty to try to give that to the other spouse even if we don't get it in return.  ...
I have been thinking about this, and I find myself wondering whether it is really true. I think that if a duty exists, either from the nature of marriage itself, or from habit and expectation, then there is, in the order of justice, something wounded when those signs of warmth are not reciprocated, no? Perhaps we can't do anything about it, but before God, can't we feel like we indeed have been wronged? I think that if that were to occur, because of, for example, depression or unemployment with your spouse, and he became introverted and unresponsive, the correct response would be to continue in humility and thoughtfulness and draw one's strength from God, and maybe bring it up if the timing was right, rather than complain and feel entitled, but do you think that recognition of unjustice is valid or no? Why or why not?

Pax,
SH.
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#47
I would venture to say that spouses DO owe each other affection. But then you get into the dangerous territory of what constitutes affection. Quis is probably right. In any case, it does no good to make demands in this regard, this just disgusts the other person. 
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#48
Satori Wrote:I would venture to say that spouses DO owe each other affection. But then you get into the dangerous territory of what constitutes affection. Quis is probably right. In any case, it does no good to make demands in this regard, this just disgusts the other person.

I think affection is the result of what spouses owe each other and God.  Sometimes it takes more work than others to get where you need to go, but you've always got to keep trying.

Are my glasses rose-colored?
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#49
shirhamalot Wrote:
QuisUtDeus Wrote:Die unto yourself.  ...in reality, we aren't entitled to much from our spouses.  Sure, the marital debt, faithfulness, etc., but we aren't entitled to affection, smiles, flowers and gifts, a happy disposition, etc.  However, it is our duty to try to give that to the other spouse even if we don't get it in return.  ...
I have been thinking about this, and I find myself wondering whether it is really true. I think that if a duty exists, either from the nature of marriage itself, or from habit and expectation, then there is, in the order of justice, something wounded when those signs of warmth are not reciprocated, no? Perhaps we can't do anything about it, but before God, can't we feel like we indeed have been wronged? I think that if that were to occur, because of, for example, depression or unemployment with your spouse, and he became introverted and unresponsive, the correct response would be to continue in humility and thoughtfulness and draw one's strength from God, and maybe bring it up if the timing was right, rather than complain and feel entitled, but do you think that recognition of unjustice is valid or no? Why or why not?

I'm not picking on you, SH, but I'd like to use your post as an example.  Look at the words you're using to describe a situation where affection isn't received:

habit
expectation
justice
wronged
unjustice

First, let me put my rad-trad hat on because sometimes it's very useful even if it displeases Vox.

The words you are using (justice, wronged, etc.) imply that something is owed, and if it is not received, a wounding takes place.  But, I would say that affection is something desired and if not received, a wounding takes place.

If a spouse commits adultery, that is an injustice because fidelity is owed to the spouse.  The wounding takes place because the vow of marriage has been violated.

If a spouse isn't all kissy-kissy back to his wife, then that might be unfair and hurtful, but it's not unjust.

The difference is what we want versus what we are entitled to by the bond of marriage.  And this is an important point because we can demand from someone that which we are entitled to, but we can only ask for that which we want.  And if we don't get what we want, we need to live with that.  We can't extort things from people they aren't required to give us - that would be the real injustice.

Taking off my rad-trad hat again, what is the reason we seek affection?  To feel loved by someone we love, I would think.

If someone shows affection because it is demanded of them rather than being moved internally to show affection, have we acheived what we really want which is to feel their love for us, or are we at best receiving an illusion of love?  Have they become, in a sense, an "affection prostitute" for us putting on an act of affection that isn't moved by love? 
They can show us affection because:

1) They feel moved to by their love for us.
2) They do it because they love us and they don't want to hurt our feelings even if they don't feel affectionate.
3) They do it because we nagged them, etc.

Only 1 and 2 are worth anything in my book.  And, certainly, #1 is the best because it is really show love in the affection rather than the fact that they love us which is what #2 shows.

I think that we are happier in the long run if we look for how they show love to us on their own initiative rather than demand they show it on our terms.  It may not be through affection but by something more mundane and simpler, like a man watching the kids so his wife can take an afternoon nap or something like that.  Or he may never do that, but he always holds your hand.

Besides being a Catholic approach (in my opinion), this also has a survival element which goes back to the original question:

1) We're better off appreciating what does make us happy in a marriage rather than lamenting what we don't have in a marriage.  He may not hold your hand, but maybe he cleans the toilets.  Bitterness and resentment come from looking at what we don't have.  Joy and happiness come from remembering what we do have.

2) To paraphrase JFK, "Ask not what your marriage can do for you; ask what you can do for your marriage."  Show affection to your spouse because you love your spouse and you want a good marriage, not to get it back in return. 

And, if you want me to get really philosophical, when we're married we're joined as one.  So, if you make the spouse happy, you are making the One - the married entity that you are - happy.  And that is the point - making the One happy, not ourselves happy.  That's why we have to die unto ourselves.  Two become one, our old self has to die at least a bit.

And for my brothers out there, remember:  a happy wife is a happy life.


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#50
frerejacques Wrote:I think affection is the result of what spouses owe each other and God.  Sometimes it takes more work than others to get where you need to go, but you've always got to keep trying.

I think it certainly can be, but not always.

Simple example: If a man is working two jobs and the woman is rearing a bunch of kids at home, they're probably too tired for affection, but they are certainly doing what they owe each other and God and are still showing love for one another by doing that.

Quote:Are my glasses rose-colored?


Maybe, but I'm a romantic myself, and I will never change.

It's good to wear rose-colored glasses if one thing is kept in mind. I think that you and I realize "you've always got to keep trying".  Romance takes work like anything else, and sometimes romance is found where you least expect it - like changing a diaper so the spouse doesn't have to get out of bed to do it.  We should see that as romantic as well, not just tea and crumpets with a string quartet in the background.
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