Single Guys: The Bible of Dating!
#21
StevusMagnus Wrote:
ErinIsNotNice Wrote:I of course agree that a man should have principles.  I disagree that an adult woman needs her husband to "set boundaries" for her as if she were his child.

I also agree with what Pope Pius XI stated in Casti Connubii--  that the ways in which headship and submission are "acted out" vary depending on the time and the culture and the individual couple.

By boundaries, I mean what he will tolerate and what he won't and what lines won't be crossed. I'm talking about the line where the man as head of the family needs to put his foot down for the good of the family. No $500 dress when the budget is negative. No Life-Teen Mass. No public school for the kids., etc.

If the woman knows the man is "a-ok" with everything because he's just happy to be there, she is then forced to set the boundaries herself which is not her job and she'll grow resentful.

The woman has to know the man is capable of saying "no" and there are lines (principles) that will not be crossed. It helps keep the family on the rails. This is what I was referring to. Christ set out clear lines his Church could not cross as well. He did not leave His Church with only vague moveable negotiable blurry lines, as the Prots would believe.

Oh, gee! What ARE your ideas about women? What woman in her right mind would need a man "setting boundaries" to stop her buying an expensive dress, when money is tight? Who sets a boundary for the MAN, who "needs" that new car, then? I know plenty of women, who need to say "no" to their men, now and then, when they go over the top one way or another! It´s not a one-way street, here the mature, wise man, there the poor, slightly irresponsible and not really trustworthy wife...
I certainly want a principled man - a man, whose principles and values I SHARE. No boundaries necessary, then - for either side.
Reply
#22
StevusMagnus Wrote:
ErinIsNotNice Wrote:I of course agree that a man should have principles.  I disagree that an adult woman needs her husband to "set boundaries" for her as if she were his child.

I also agree with what Pope Pius XI stated in Casti Connubii--  that the ways in which headship and submission are "acted out" vary depending on the time and the culture and the individual couple.

By boundaries, I mean what he will tolerate and what he won't and what lines won't be crossed. I'm talking about the line where the man as head of the family needs to put his foot down for the good of the family. No $500 dress when the budget is negative. No Life-Teen Mass. No public school for the kids., etc.

If the woman knows the man is "a-ok" with everything because he's just happy to be there, she is then forced to set the boundaries herself which is not her job and she'll grow resentful.

The woman has to know the man is capable of saying "no" and there are lines (principles) that will not be crossed. It helps keep the family on the rails. This is what I was referring to. Christ set out clear lines his Church could not cross as well. He did not leave His Church with only vague moveable negotiable blurry lines, as the Prots would believe.
If a guy marries a woman dumb enough to spend mad amounts of money on frivolities, when the family is broke and suffering...well hes the idiot, not her
Reply
#23
The most important part of these "systems," if they're on the level (I'm partial to David DeAngelo's work myself) is getting your own act together as a man, as Stevus mentioned up-thread.  So when you go looking for "a woman worthy of you," that's not arrogance, because you've been working (and continue to work) to make yourself worthy of a good woman.

Without that critical part, all the pick-up lines and NLP won't get a man very far, because he'll still be projecting the attitude of a supplicant, begging women to come down from their towers and deign to spend time with him.  That only works in bad teen movies (which is where we all learned it).  What's romantic when John Cuzack does it in a movie is called stalking in real life.

Of course, to turn this into a "system" that can be divided up into lessons and sold, you have to flesh it out and include a lot of details that make it seem more mechanistic and manipulative than it really is.  And those are the parts most guys jump to first, because learning a few tricks is a lot easier than fixing your attitude.

But behind the specifics, the basics are simple: be a real man, with the confidence that you deserve a good woman; and treat women as valuable individuals on your own level, not superior beings from another plane.  All the details are just how to get yourself to that point and how to project it.  (Which includes breaking the bad habits you've picked up, like, "Hi, can I buy you a drink?")

As far as wasteful spending goes, that's a whole issue of its own.  Most people are so irresponsible in that area these days that I think a couple is lucky if either member has a frugal bone in his or her body.
Reply
#24
diotima Wrote:Oh, gee! What ARE your ideas about women? What woman in her right mind would need a man "setting boundaries" to stop her buying an expensive dress, when money is tight? Who sets a boundary for the MAN, who "needs" that new car, then? I know plenty of women, who need to say "no" to their men, now and then, when they go over the top one way or another! It´s not a one-way street, here the mature, wise man, there the poor, slightly irresponsible and not really trustworthy wife...
I certainly want a principled man - a man, whose principles and values I SHARE. No boundaries necessary, then - for either side.

Ideally the wife and husband would share principles, but there will always be disagreements and there can be only one head. A respectful, loving, compassionate head but a head nonetheless.

Of course if the husband is demanding something immoral he need not be obeyed.

But he needs to set the boundaries of what is acceptable. Otherwise there is going to be chaos & confusion and he will allow his wife to run all over him due to neglect of his duty and the whole family will suffer.

As our faith teaches women were meant to be the heart of the home, be the primary caretakers of the children, and helpmate for the husband. Being the head is not their role, if they are a single-parent they can do it and function, but it is not their natural role.

It is a role with a LOT of responsibility and headache and modern man would just as soon ignore the role and leave it to the wife. But he was made for the role and cannot. However he gets no help from modern society which constantly devalues fatherhood and masculinity. Satan's first strike against God and the family is to destroy earthly fathers and fatherhood in general.
Reply
#25
CanadianCatholic Wrote:If a guy marries a woman dumb enough to spend mad amounts of money on frivolities, when the family is broke and suffering...well hes the idiot, not her

This is where the dating advice comes in. If you follow Hodges advice you weed out the princesses and you don't get into this situation.

However, in our modern world, there are many selfish "Catholic" women such as these and if a Catholic man has married one he must set boundaries for the sake of the family.

It was simply an example to illustrate a larger point.

Reply
#26
Mhoram Wrote:The most important part of these "systems," if they're on the level (I'm partial to David DeAngelo's work myself) is getting your own act together as a man, as Stevus mentioned up-thread.  So when you go looking for "a woman worthy of you," that's not arrogance, because you've been working (and continue to work) to make yourself worthy of a good woman.

Without that critical part, all the pick-up lines and NLP won't get a man very far, because he'll still be projecting the attitude of a supplicant, begging women to come down from their towers and deign to spend time with him.  That only works in bad teen movies (which is where we all learned it).  What's romantic when John Cuzack does it in a movie is called stalking in real life.

Of course, to turn this into a "system" that can be divided up into lessons and sold, you have to flesh it out and include a lot of details that make it seem more mechanistic and manipulative than it really is.  And those are the parts most guys jump to first, because learning a few tricks is a lot easier than fixing your attitude.

But behind the specifics, the basics are simple: be a real man, with the confidence that you deserve a good woman; and treat women as valuable individuals on your own level, not superior beings from another plane.  All the details are just how to get yourself to that point and how to project it.  (Which includes breaking the bad habits you've picked up, like, "Hi, can I buy you a drink?")

As far as wasteful spending goes, that's a whole issue of its own.  Most people are so irresponsible in that area these days that I think a couple is lucky if either member has a frugal bone in his or her body.

Mhoram,

Great insight and contribution. Thanks!
Reply
#27
StevusMagnus Wrote:
frerejacques Wrote:I'm curious about why you believe such things used to "come naturally?"
Go see a modern romantic comedy or "Sex in the City".

Now go watch a Cary Grant movie.

Quote:It's normal to have nervous jitters when dealing with dating matters, but just like everything else this insecurity has been blown out of proportion by the forces of marketing so that they can sell you a solution to a problem they've created. Snake oil.

I'm not talking about "nervous jitters". That is natural. I'm talking about patterns of behavior that lower female interest level. Behavior can be changed, but you need to know what to change and how to change it. That means knowledge and knowledge has been sold since time immemorial. The need is self-evident an doesn't need to be manufactured. Look at the diovrce rate in this country and the # of failed relationships.

Quote:I also think that making generalized statements like "men are completely lost" and assuming that their role models come only from TV and the movies, as you have above, is short sighted and frankly just as insulting to men as the twaddle produced by emasculating feminists. The majority of young men have social networks which include fathers, uncles, teachers, big brothers, clergy, - many of whom are not pathetic, and none of whom are trying to sell them anything.

Maybe if you are living in a Trad Catholic ghetto, but that is sadly, not the reality out there. There will always be exceptions, but the vast majority of American men don't have a good relationship as an example. The state of the family is terrible in this country and the examples on TV are awful as well. How can you ask your dad or uncle for dating advice when he is on his 2nd or 3rd divorce? I think you are ignoring the state of a vast majority of society.

I'm curious about why you're basing so many of your conclusions on fiction - neither Sex In The City nor Cary Grant are located in the documentary section of my local video store. Do you know anybody who's not on TV, son? Because that little box - it lies. You might want to think about who's behind that stuff. Clue: it's not Jesus. If you let television uncensored into your house to provide examples to yourself and your family, that's your decision.

As far as "the vast majority of society" - who exactly are you hanging out with? Is it Jerry Springer? Because that's not real either, Stevus. Sure some people are out of control and lost, but I wouldn't say that most Catholics are. It's the nature of young men to become impatient about finding a wife - instead of urging them to put their faith in God you're telling them that some guy has a system. What system is better than Catholicism?
Reply
#28
StevusMagnus Wrote:
CanadianCatholic Wrote:If a guy marries a woman dumb enough to spend mad amounts of money on frivolities, when the family is broke and suffering...well hes the idiot, not her

This is where the dating advice comes in. If you follow Hodges advice you weed out the princesses and you don't get into this situation.

However, in our modern world, there are many selfish "Catholic" women such as these and if a Catholic man has married one he must set boundaries for the sake of the family.

Guys don't need a "system" to avoid bad women-- they need to stop going for looks over what's really important.  They know full well when they are dating what you call "princesses" but they don't care.

I know some wonderful single Catholic young women, just what a traddie guy would want: sweet, devout, wanting nothing more than to have a huge herd of kids and homeschool them---  BUT, they are unattractive.
So if the Catholic guys are stupid and pass them by for someone selfish but pretty, they deserve all the suffering they get.
Reply
#29
ErinIsNotNice Wrote:
StevusMagnus Wrote:
CanadianCatholic Wrote:If a guy marries a woman dumb enough to spend mad amounts of money on frivolities, when the family is broke and suffering...well hes the idiot, not her

This is where the dating advice comes in. If you follow Hodges advice you weed out the princesses and you don't get into this situation.

However, in our modern world, there are many selfish "Catholic" women such as these and if a Catholic man has married one he must set boundaries for the sake of the family.

Guys don't need a "system" to avoid bad women-- they need to stop going for looks over what's really important.  They know full well when they are dating what you call "princesses" but they don't care.

I know some wonderful single Catholic young women, just what a traddie guy would want: sweet, devout, wanting nothing more than to have a huge herd of kids and homeschool them---  BUT, they are unattractive.
So if the Catholic guys are stupid and pass them by for someone selfish but pretty, they deserve all the suffering they get.
HA! Heck yea lady
Reply
#30
frerejacques Wrote:I'm curious about why you're basing so many of your conclusions on fiction - neither Sex In The City nor Cary Grant are located in the documentary section of my local video store. Do you know anybody who's not on TV, son? Because that little box - it lies. You might want to think about who's behind that stuff. Clue: it's not Jesus. If you let television uncensored into your house to provide examples to yourself and your family, that's your decision.

As far as "the vast majority of society" - who exactly are you hanging out with? Is it Jerry Springer? Because that's not real either, Stevus. Sure some people are out of control and lost, but I wouldn't say that most Catholics are. It's the nature of young men to become impatient about finding a wife - instead of urging them to put their faith in God you're telling them that some guy has a system. What system is better than Catholicism?

Bravo, frerejacques!
 
- Lisa
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)