Alabama fines "fat" workers
#11
HappyWife Wrote:Ok, I will admit I sometimes get carried away. I do believe 100% that if you work your butt off and are generous with God in giving life to babies, etc, and you need help fine. However:

a) I have known tons of social security workers and they ALL say that most people trooping into their office are unmarried, have tons of kids from different husbands (the more kids you have the more money you get), and they are covered in gold jewelry, expensive clothes, etc. Welfare fraud is rampant, and people all over who are perfectly able to work are on it.

b) as a catholic I too believe we should help the needy too. I do think it should be a personal choice though. I don't think the government should take so much of a man's paycheck and then do with it as they like. This is how we end up paying for abortion and free birth control.

The welfare system is out of hand. We encourage unhealthy lifestyles by supporting people who do not actually need it. We have girls all over the place who stay unmarried so they can continue to collect more money (b/c having a man in the house cuts your money down since he should work). We have girls who are doing drugs and driving around in cadillacs collecting welfare b/c thei other income is "under the table." You ahve whole illegal families living in an aparment that their daughter got b/c of her anchor baby, etc. If helping the poor went back to being an ecclesistiacl job than we would be much better off. The numbers of people in this country who are in "poverty" is higher than ever poor for two reasons.

a) welfare obviously doesn't solve anything or it would help people get back on their feet, not get chained to governemtn help for life.
b)the government keeps creating this ridiculous "standard of living" which they feel obligated to provide for the masses. The problem is that the taxpayers don't have many of the luxeries they consider necessary for people on welfare, how is that right?
 For instance, a normal mom who can't afford all new clothes for back-to-school goes to the thrift store to buy most of her kids stuff. Meanwhile, the woman on welfare has a voucher to buy her kid's stuff brand new from JCPenny.
 
Thanks for clarifying your position. I have had first hand experience with what you are saying. As I said before, the trouble is weeding out those who are in true need from those who are bums.
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#12
Well, HappyWife, good luck staying slim. Your lack of charity astounds me. Do you think Jesus blamed people without knowing their circumstances? Do you think God approves of your doing that?

It is now known that fat cells produce hormones that affect our metabolism and everybody has fat cells. It is very, very difficult to lose weight and keep it off.


There are many chronic medical conditions, primarily autoimmune diseases, that lead to obesity, and many drugs that people must take because of chronic conditions that cause weight gain. You could end up with such a chronic condition; they hit women more than men, and autoimmune diseases are epidemic today. They all cause fatigue, too, so saying "Well, exercise" to someone who has no energy and is so stiff they can barely move is ridiculous.

I know because I am disabled by six, count 'em, six chronic conditions, four of them autoimmune, meaning my immune system attacks my own cells, and I became fat only after I became sick in my late forties. But for some reason I always knew that some people could not help being overweight and I never looked down on them. It was accepted when I was growing up that people came in different sizes, some tall, some short, some fat, some slim.

It just slays me that anyone assumes fat people choose to be that way. Do you also think bald men chose to lose their hair? Hormones, genetics, and environmental factors are responsible. I had a great figure until I was 45 and I would love to have it again. I would love to have my health again, too. I worked hard for many years after my stay-at-home mom years. I had a career I loved. It's not because I'm fat that I can't work, it's because of the pain I have in my joints and muscles. Some days, all I can do is use my laptop. My fingers are often too painful to read a book, I can't turn the pages. But I can type because the keyboard requires only a light touch.

Imagine not being able to use a fork or spoon. I've been there.  On our twentieth wedding anniversary, my husband and I went out to eat after work and I could not cut my very tender filet mignon.  He had to cut it for me.  I was only 39.  I cried.  That was the year he had to dress me and French braid my hair before I drove to work, using the palms of my hands to drive because I couldn't curl my fingers around the steering wheel.  But I drove thirty miles to school and thirty miles back, taught all day long, and my students didn't know how sick I was.

Then I went into remission and worked several more years before I got hit really hard with a recurrence and more diseases.

And you know what?  I'm fat but my blood pressure and cholesterol are perfect, so is my blood sugar, and my coronary and carotid arteries are like those of a much younger women -- no plaque at all.  So I'm in perfect health except for all the things that are wrong with me.  Oh, I forgot one of my conditions, so I have seven.  Boy, am I lucky!

Again, it is now known that fat cells produce hormones that affect our metabolism and everybody has fat cells. It is very, very difficult to lose weight AND keep it off.

I realize you weren't judging me, you didn't think anyone here was fat or disabled.  But you are judging people without knowing them.  I know people judge me when we park in a handicapped space.  They see a fat woman with a cane but they can't see my pain.

Do not judge unless you have sufficient information about the person you are judging.
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#13
HappyWife -

You do realize that this goes beyond the issue of weight though, right?

According to articles appearing here in Alabama people who refuse to undergo the "health screening" will be charged this penalty.  Including people who are a normal weight.  People who have "risk factors" including, but not limited to, weight can be penalized. 

So if you are fit, eat healthily and refuse to undergo a personally invasive health screening (the results of which are shared with your employer) you're penalized.

What if the plan decides that not using birth control is a "risk factor" because it doesn't want to cover maternity costs? 

The problem is not overweight vs not overweight.

Nor is this an issue of welfare.  These are employed persons who are being told by their employer, "Have a physical and make the results available to us for the purpose of deciding if you're going to be hit with a penalty.  Keep your records private and you'll be penalized, too."

Regardless of one's weight or health I would think that would make them think twice.  It's rather like the idea of genetic testing to determine who will and won't be able to get life and health insurance.

Bad ideas all around.

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#14
PaxVobiscum Wrote:Well, HappyWife, good luck staying slim. Your lack of charity astounds me. Do you think Jesus blamed people without knowing their circumstances? Do you think God approves of your doing that?

It is now known that fat cells produce hormones that affect our metabolism and everybody has fat cells. It is very, very difficult to lose weight and keep it off.


There are many chronic medical conditions, primarily autoimmune diseases, that lead to obesity, and many drugs that people must take because of chronic conditions that cause weight gain. You could end up with such a chronic condition; they hit women more than men, and autoimmune diseases are epidemic today. They all cause fatigue, too, so saying "Well, exercise" to someone who has no energy and is so stiff they can barely move is ridiculous.

I know because I am disabled by six, count 'em, six chronic conditions, four of them autoimmune, meaning my immune system attacks my own cells, and I became fat only after I became sick in my late forties. But for some reason I always knew that some people could not help being overweight and I never looked down on them. It was accepted when I was growing up that people came in different sizes, some tall, some short, some fat, some slim.

It just slays me that anyone assumes fat people choose to be that way. Do you also think bald men chose to lose their hair? Hormones, genetics, and environmental factors are responsible. I had a great figure until I was 45 and I would love to have it again. I would love to have my health again, too. I worked hard for many years after my stay-at-home mom years. I had a career I loved. It's not because I'm fat that I can't work, it's because of the pain I have in my joints and muscles. Some days, all I can do is use my laptop. My fingers are often too painful to read a book, I can't turn the pages. But I can type because the keyboard requires only a light touch.

Imagine not being able to use a fork or spoon. I've been there.  On our twentieth wedding anniversary, my husband and I went out to eat after work and I could not cut my very tender filet mignon.  He had to cut it for me.  I was only 39.  I cried.  That was the year he had to dress me and French braid my hair before I drove to work, using the palms of my hands to drive because I couldn't curl my fingers around the steering wheel.  But I drove thirty miles to school and thirty miles back, taught all day long, and my students didn't know how sick I was.

Then I went into remission and worked several more years before I got hit really hard with a recurrence and more diseases.

And you know what?  I'm fat but my blood pressure and cholesterol are perfect, so is my blood sugar, and my coronary and carotid arteries are like those of a much younger women -- no plaque at all.  So I'm in perfect health except for all the things that are wrong with me.  Oh, I forgot one of my conditions, so I have seven.  Boy, am I lucky!

Again, it is now known that fat cells produce hormones that affect our metabolism and everybody has fat cells. It is very, very difficult to lose weight AND keep it off.

I realize you weren't judging me, you didn't think anyone here was fat or disabled.  But you are judging people without knowing them.  I know people judge me when we park in a handicapped space.  They see a fat woman with a cane but they can't see my pain.

Do not judge unless you have sufficient information about the person you are judging.

 I am hardly talking about people who are actually disabled. I am talking about people who gorge themselves on fast food all day and then proceed to:
 
-claim disability and get medicaid
-sue McDonald's for "making" them fat
-collect money for the rest of their lives because they are too lazy to lose weight and stop eating

 If someone has a real issue I think they should get help. However, I still believe help should come from individual organizations, churches, and individuals. I do not care what issue one has, I do not think people should be forced to give up a third of their income and have no control over what happens to it. Just as many people were getting the help they needed before the state decided to make it their business.
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#15
SouthernCatholic Wrote:HappyWife -

You do realize that this goes beyond the issue of weight though, right?

According to articles appearing here in Alabama people who refuse to undergo the "health screening" will be charged this penalty.  Including people who are a normal weight.  People who have "risk factors" including, but not limited to, weight can be penalized. 

So if you are fit, eat healthily and refuse to undergo a personally invasive health screening (the results of which are shared with your employer) you're penalized.

What if the plan decides that not using birth control is a "risk factor" because it doesn't want to cover maternity costs? 

The problem is not overweight vs not overweight.

Nor is this an issue of welfare.  These are employed persons who are being told by their employer, "Have a physical and make the results available to us for the purpose of deciding if you're going to be hit with a penalty.  Keep your records private and you'll be penalized, too."

Regardless of one's weight or health I would think that would make them think twice.  It's rather like the idea of genetic testing to determine who will and won't be able to get life and health insurance.

Bad ideas all around.

 Yes, that is a good point.
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#16
I really don't see the problem with this.  It's not like you have the right to health insurance from your employer.  It's a benefit.  And if your employer (in this case, the state) wants to charge people more money who are more likely to cost them more money, that seems fair.
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#17
cgraye Wrote:I really don't see the problem with this.  It's not like you have the right to health insurance from your employer.  It's a benefit.  And if your employer (in this case, the state) wants to charge people more money who are more likely to cost them more money, that seems fair.

 Unfortunately we live in a society where everyone has this "right" and that "right." If these "rights" don't get met, they sue. There are a bunch of people trying to sue the government right now b/c they didn't get as many FEMA trailers as they wanted after a storm. Oh boohoo, FEMA trailers are an outreach, they are not a right.
  We did it to ourselves though. The government tries to get it's paws into everything and people want it to. Now everyone looks to the government to take care of everything and when it doesn't they get all belligerent.
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#18
HappyWife Wrote:Ok, I will admit I sometimes get carried away. I do believe 100% that if you work your butt off and are generous with God in giving life to babies, etc, and you need help fine. However:

a) I have known tons of social security workers and they ALL say that most people trooping into their office are unmarried, have tons of kids from different husbands (the more kids you have the more money you get), and they are covered in gold jewelry, expensive clothes, etc. Welfare fraud is rampant, and people all over who are perfectly able to work are on it.

b) as a catholic I too believe we should help the needy too. I do think it should be a personal choice though. I don't think the government should take so much of a man's paycheck and then do with it as they like. This is how we end up paying for abortion and free birth control.

The welfare system is out of hand. We encourage unhealthy lifestyles by supporting people who do not actually need it. We have girls all over the place who stay unmarried so they can continue to collect more money (b/c having a man in the house cuts your money down since he should work). We have girls who are doing drugs and driving around in cadillacs collecting welfare b/c thei other income is "under the table." You ahve whole illegal families living in an aparment that their daughter got b/c of her anchor baby, etc. If helping the poor went back to being an ecclesistiacl job than we would be much better off. The numbers of people in this country who are in "poverty" is higher than ever poor for two reasons.

a) welfare obviously doesn't solve anything or it would help people get back on their feet, not get chained to governemtn help for life.
b)the government keeps creating this ridiculous "standard of living" which they feel obligated to provide for the masses. The problem is that the taxpayers don't have many of the luxeries they consider necessary for people on welfare, how is that right?
For instance, a normal mom who can't afford all new clothes for back-to-school goes to the thrift store to buy most of her kids stuff. Meanwhile, the woman on welfare has a voucher to buy her kid's stuff brand new from JCPenny.



So what's your idea about those nasty women on welfare having "tons of kids"?  Do we force them all to abort?  One child and then you abort the next one and have yourself sterilized whether you like it or not?  Would that be fair or moral?  Everybody aborts so we don't have any of those welfare queens driving Cadillacs.

Jonathan Swift wrote an essay back during the Potato Famine in Ireland, suggesting that it would be good to give the benighted Irish tips on how to prepare and eat their excess children. 

Those "mackerel snappers" have way too many kids, you know.  Bunch of papists.

Quite a few people thought Swift had an excellent idea, not realizing it was a parody.


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#19
PaxVobiscum Wrote:
HappyWife Wrote:Ok, I will admit I sometimes get carried away. I do believe 100% that if you work your butt off and are generous with God in giving life to babies, etc, and you need help fine. However:

a) I have known tons of social security workers and they ALL say that most people trooping into their office are unmarried, have tons of kids from different husbands (the more kids you have the more money you get), and they are covered in gold jewelry, expensive clothes, etc. Welfare fraud is rampant, and people all over who are perfectly able to work are on it.

b) as a catholic I too believe we should help the needy too. I do think it should be a personal choice though. I don't think the government should take so much of a man's paycheck and then do with it as they like. This is how we end up paying for abortion and free birth control.

The welfare system is out of hand. We encourage unhealthy lifestyles by supporting people who do not actually need it. We have girls all over the place who stay unmarried so they can continue to collect more money (b/c having a man in the house cuts your money down since he should work). We have girls who are doing drugs and driving around in cadillacs collecting welfare b/c thei other income is "under the table." You ahve whole illegal families living in an aparment that their daughter got b/c of her anchor baby, etc. If helping the poor went back to being an ecclesistiacl job than we would be much better off. The numbers of people in this country who are in "poverty" is higher than ever poor for two reasons.

a) welfare obviously doesn't solve anything or it would help people get back on their feet, not get chained to governemtn help for life.
b)the government keeps creating this ridiculous "standard of living" which they feel obligated to provide for the masses. The problem is that the taxpayers don't have many of the luxeries they consider necessary for people on welfare, how is that right?
For instance, a normal mom who can't afford all new clothes for back-to-school goes to the thrift store to buy most of her kids stuff. Meanwhile, the woman on welfare has a voucher to buy her kid's stuff brand new from JCPenny.



So what's your idea about those nasty women on welfare having "tons of kids"?  Do we force them all to abort?  One child and then you abort the next one and have yourself sterilized whether you like it or not?  Would that be fair or moral?  Everybody aborts so we don't have any of those welfare queens driving Cadillacs.

Jonathan Swift wrote an essay back during the Potato Famine in Ireland, suggesting that it would be good to give the benighted Irish tips on how to prepare and eat their excess children. 

Those "mackerel snappers" have way too many kids, you know.  Bunch of papists.

Quite a few people thought Swift had an excellent idea, not realizing it was a parody.

 Don't get all emotional. All I am saying is that by continuing to bump up the amount of this woman's check every time she has another kid just encourages her promiscuity. If we put as much money into abstinence talks at schools, we would be better off. Do we as a nation have to keep paying for these kids?? Never in the history of the world did we just keep handing out money to people who live like that. Women could go to churches to ask for food and help, but they would be counseled to stop this horrible lifestyle. I am not talking about married women with working husbands who still need a little hep, I am talking about the USA encouraging immoral lifestyles.
 I still don't think we should give anyone money though, not as a country. I think we should leave charity up to individuals, churches, and individual organizations. People got the help they needed before LBJ got involved, lets go back to that!
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#20
HappyWife Wrote:If we put as much money into abstinence talks at schools, we would be better off.


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Yeah, that would really work.
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