Radio Interview: Roberto Fiore, Catholic Politician
#31
PilgrimageofGrace Wrote:
Quote: Posted by avemariagratiaplena
Is this the same Roberto Fiore that received a conviction for his part in a terrorist conspiracy in which 85 people were murdered at Bologna Railway station?
No. That is a lie initiated by Communists for idiots to believe. He was not even accused by any court of being involved, never mind not having any conviction for it. He is not in any way associated with these things other than members of the P2 masonic organization attempted to frame him and others for it. It failed and after years of investigation that instigators of the frame-up, Licio Gelli - the boss of P2 - and two operatives of the Italian Secret Service - SISMI - were convicted of attempting to fabricate the evidence and imprisoned for it. Fiore received apology and compensation from the Italian State. He has sued around 200 newspapers in Britain and Italy who have stupidly repeated such claims and won every single case.
Quote:
Posted by avemariagratiaplena
And didn't he inherit his seat from Mussolini's granddaughter?
Yes. Is that a problem for you?

Can you give me the names of the newspapers Roberto Fiore sued and the dates of all the relevant court appearances? Or even one relevant court appearance. Also the man was convicted in absentia for "subversive association" and sentenced to nine years, reduced to five and a half. Was that conviction overturned? Did Fiore receive compensation for a false conviction? Are you asserting on this forum that the Bologna bombing was carried out by Freemasons and the evidence planted to make it look like a neo-fascist crime?

And yes it is a problem that Fiore is the sucessor to Mussolini. It means he is a fascist and fascism is bad.




 

Reply
#32
Quote: Posted by gregg
Pilgrimage of Grace.  It is pretty clear from this thread that as a former National Front Member and founder of what you claim is the now defuncted ITP you're pretty intent on advancing the ITP/FN agenda in Catholic circles and therefore can hardly claim to be unbiased in this debate.
Who has claimed that I am unbiased? My politics and history are well enough known as is the fact that some of the people being accused of all sorts of gravely unjust nonsense are personal friends, in some cases of 25-30 years standing.

But this thread is not about politics. Whether one is sympathetic to Fiore's politics or not is irrelevant to this discussion.

Quote: Posted by gregg
You also seem to be very quick to throw the accusation of "calumny" around in every debate, having behaved exactly the same with this last poster "Isaac" on Ignis Arden as you have here on this forum.
That's right. To destroy these calumnies is exactly what the radio interview and this thread are about. But there is nothing "quick" about the response, though. Such grave lies and calumnies have been spread around gossipy Catholic circles for at least twenty five years now - as you are well aware, gregg.

Quote: Posted by gregg
And here you even accuse Fr. Peter Scott SSPX District Superior of the USA of imprudence.
That's right. Here is part of a text that I posted in response to a similar thread on Angelqueen some time ago. In fact I'll post the complete text as it deals with a number of accusations.
Quote:
I would like to thank Servitium for allowing a final post to be made at the end of this thread to allow certain matters to be cleared up.
 
Some extremely serious accusations have been made by a handful of American Catholics against a number of their co-religionists in Europe. These lies and calumnies were previously dealt with on the Ignis Ardens forum, and privately before that. Nevertheless, as many readers of AQ have probably read such accusations here, and not trawled through the many posts on Ignis, it is necessary to answer them here as well. It has been stated time and time again that if anyone has genuine concerns about the accusations that have been made against these men then they should privately take those concerns to the authorities of SSPX or priests who personally know the men. They will deal with anything that may need to be dealt with. The purpose of this post is to examine some of the main accusations so that Catholics attached to Tradition do not fall into the trap of believing and participating in the calumnies that are being spread.
 
GNOSTICISM AND NATURALISM
Accusation:
Catholics who were involved in a political organization - ITP - have promoted Gnosticism, particularly the philosophy of Julius Evola, and Naturalism.
 
Response:
A short history is probably necessary here for American readers. The International Third Position (ITP) was a political co-ordinating structure, organised largely throughout Europe, whose member associations accepted the ITP's Declaration of Principles. It was founded by former members and associates of the British political party, National Front. A number of officials from the National Front had, over a period of several years, converted and been received into the Catholic Church, or re-found and strengthened their faith. Interest in the Catholic Faith resulted in large measure from our study of social, cultural and political ideas and history. Principle number one in the ITP Declaration of Principles made it perfectly clear that the primacy of struggle lay in the spiritual realm and that the spiritual motivation underlying the ITP was the Faith. The ITP was founded towards the end of 1989 and was officially dissolved in the early part of the year 2000. The ITP had a traditional priest as its chaplain. Its political co-ordinating role has been continued by a European structure named the European National Front, though a number of the leading ITP officials are not involved with the ENF.
 
Alleged Evidence of Naturalism and Gnosticism.
It has been claimed that an educationally orientated political pamphlet, "The Political Soldier", authored by Derek Holland nearly twenty five years ago, promoted the philosophy of Julius Evola. A reading of the pamphlet - it has already been linked to in this thread by an accuser - shows that far from being a promotion of Evola, Gnosticism, religious syncretism or whatever else, the pamphlet is merely an attempt to introduce the idea, to materialist orientated political activists, that life consists of more than the mere material. It teaches that history proves that a spiritual conception of life is, in fact, vastly superior to a materialistic conception. The pamphlet was the first step of a political education structure that eventually brought several dozen people to the Faith in a number of European countries, and which led to its translation into a number of those languages as a consequence. As a result, the conversions continue to appear. As well as helping to bring about conversions, this educational process also softened up the culturally received and ingrained hatred towards Catholicism of thousands of patriotic Britons.

It is easy to cherry pick one or two sentences, or one or two paragraphs, from this thing or that and supply them out of context. But it is interesting to note that the accusers never mention other historical texts, that also belonged to that educational process, that in no uncertain terms condemned Gnosticism and Naturalism.
 
The only other "evidence" supplied to back up such accusations are (1) a partial quotation taken from a letter written by Rev. Fr. Peter Scott who states that Derek Holland and John Sharpe have fallen into Naturalism and (2) a notice from Rev. Fr. Ronald Ringrose in his parish bulletin.

It has been related by bona fide Catholics in America, that suspicion of ITP "Naturalism" in the U.S. began with the writings of Rev. Fr. Stephen DeLallo, who assembled a dossier of accusations against Derek Holland, Roberto Fiore and, by implication, John Sharpe. These were based upon scurrilous press reports and extraneous internet postings from rabidly Communist/Socialist/anarchist websites, a former Catholic once involved with ITP who rejected the Faith and degenerated into neo-paganism/Satanism, and Matt Anger. Fr. DeLallo submitted the report to Fr. Peter Scott and distributed it via fax to numerous priestly colleagues at priories across the United States, including Fr. Ringrose at St. Athanasius church. It is this dossier which presumably resulted in both Fr. Scott's perception of so-called "Naturalism" and Fr. Ringrose's notice.
 
The notice from Fr. Ringrose stated that St. Athanasius' faithful should be "warned" that "some people claim" that the ITP, the St. George Educational Trust, the Trust of St. Michael the Archangel, and the Legion of St. Louis are "Catholic groups". He concluded his notice by saying: "do not be deceived!", obviously implying that an attempt to represent the groups as Catholic would involve deception. John Sharpe, I have been told, later discussed the notice with Fr. Ringrose. John Sharpe asserted that three of the four organizations in question (less the defunct, political ITP) were indeed Catholic organizations, to which Fr. Ringrose responded: "I never said they weren't Catholic - only that people should not be deceived."

The notice in the St. Athanasius bulletin mentioned nothing about Naturalism, and in fact failed to specify on any grounds what was objectionable about the four groups mentioned. Fr. Ringrose is not known to have met any former members of ITP. Why he should apparently have made such comments remains a mystery, though his receipt of the DeLallo dossier is no doubt part of the motivation. In fact, as I was told, Fr. Ringrose directed John Sharpe to Fr. DeLallo to further discuss the question, as he is, in a paraphrase of Fr. Ringrose's words, the real expert. Fr. Ringrose's comments are all the more surprising because one of the associations condemned by Fr. Ringrose (the St. George Trust) had Rev. Fr. Michael Crowdy on its board of trustees, and Fr. Crowdy was not only the ITP's chaplain, but a close friend of Archbishop Lefebvre and highly respected throughout the SSPX. It was stated on the recent thread that Fr. Ringrose is a personal friend of His Lordship Bishop Williamson. That being so, it would not be difficult for Fr. Ringrose to speak to His Lordship about the men being calumniated. He knows them well, and has done so for many years.
 
As for Fr. Scott's remark, it is difficult to know on what grounds Fr. Scott could have made it. He has never met Derek Holland and, I am informed, met John Sharpe only once when dining with him and his family in their home some years ago. Aside from the DeLallo dossier, another possible source of Fr. Scott's perception may be the following. John Sharpe was invited to give a talk at St. Michael's, an SSPX chapel in New York, in the year 2000. He, ironically, lectured on the evils of revolutionary movements stemming from the principles of 1789 and their tyrannical application to modern society. Some individuals at the chapel reportedly objected to aspects of the talk, and Fr. Scott concluded that it was therefore a "disaster" and illustrated the "naturalism" of Sharpe and, perhaps by implication or "guilt by association" his associate, Derek Holland. No specifics - what actually was wrong with the talk for example - were ever made public or even made known in private correspondence to anyone.
 
The original DeLallo dossier has scandalously resurfaced from time to time in various re-packaged, re-formatted, and expanded ways. This included publication within the U.S. District SSPX Priest's Bulletin and the Knights Newsletter (which, to its credit, distanced itself from the infamous and now happily shut-down Le Floch Report), and by various characters such as Anger, Romer and Pryor. The Anger- Fr. DeLallo connection was hinted at publicly in an article appearing in The Remnant entitled "Catholic Action in the Third Millenium", of which Anger was a co-author. The article referred to the "authoritative sources such as Fr. De Lallo’s study" which should be consulted to counteract the so-called errors of the approach to Catholic Action advocated by Sharpe, Holland, and other Catholics of their perspective. The accusations in the dossier remain, vague, unsubstantiated, and omitting any response or alternative perspective from those who are attacked. These accusers rarely operate in public and have at no time contacted Sharpe, Holland, or any of the other vaguely accused parties. They do form, however, the basis of every lie promulgated on all the various bulletin boards where they appeared over the last several years.
 
To Servitium’s credit, this is one of the first fora in which such an opportunity has been granted, following on the opportunity afforded John Sharpe by Stephen Heiner and the Distributist Review last year. http://distributism.blogspot.com/2006/08...pe_17.html

Any assertion that Sharpe, Holland, or former ITP members suffer from "Naturalism" would certainly not be based upon knowledge of the spiritual lives of these men. In fact, if there is any concern that these men lack the proper spiritual perspective, Sharpe's interview with a St. George Trust spokesman, which was published in The Remnant seven years ago, should put those concerns to rest. When Sharpe asked his pseudonymous interviewee what readers could do to help the Trust, the most emphasized response was: prayers and Masses. Additionally, Sharpe's article on the entire question of naturalism, politics, and Catholic Action, written as a response to Anger's article referenced above, and published originally at Seattle Catholic should be enough to put concerns of naturalism to rest. So should also his remarks on this topic in the Distributist Review interview.
http://www.seattlecatholic.com/article_2..._View.html 
 
The only other possible reason that springs to mind is that both John Sharpe and Derek Holland are known for promoting the concept of Distributism through their publishing enterprise, IHS Press. Yet, Fr. Scott goes on to indicate in the very same letter that Distributism is a Catholic concept. The "Naturalism" comment needs to be clarified by Fr. Scott because as it stands it lacks substance and, in fact, conflicts with statements made by those accused of this error in the first place. In other words, Fr. Scott should be asked to substantiate his statement because it is currently doing a great injustice to the accused parties.
 
ITP INVOLVED IN FOOTBALL HOOLIGANISM
Accusation:
The ITP was founded by football hooligans and Roberto Fiore is connected to organising football hooliganism.

Response:
Evidence for this accusation was asked for on the Ignis Ardens forum but none was forthcoming except for a claim that Roberto Fiore's brother-in-law is in some way involved in the organisation of what are known as "ultras". "Ultras" are actually fan clubs officially connected to, and sponsored by, professional football teams in Italy. They produce and sell merchandise on behalf of a club and provide the noisy atmosphere inside the stadiums.
 
Nevertheless, the man alleged to be Roberto's brother-in-law is actually well known in Italy, and on public record, as being virulently opposed to Roberto Fiore and his political movement, Forza Nuova.
 
More important is the fact that Roberto Fiore does not even have a brother-in-law on his side of the family, and the man in question has no past or current connection with his wife's family either!
 
 
ROBERTO FIORE AND THE BOLOGNA TERRORIST MASSACRE
Accusation:
Roberto Fiore organised, took part in, or was somehow responsible for the terrorist outrage at Bologna railway station in which 85 people were murdered.
 
Alleged Evidence of Connection to Bologna Bombing
Several online sources have been put forward as alleged proof:
Wikipedia - When you read this article it could certainly leave the impression that this is so. But a careful reading shows that they do not actually accuse him of involvement. There is good reason for that. Furthermore, a link on the same page leads to their article on "the Bologna bombing." There is no mention of Roberto Fiore. It should also be noted that the lack of accuracy of Wikipedia is notorious and the article contains numerous errors. For example, he is not a "student" of Julius Evola if by "student" is meant a follower of Evola's ideas or someone taught by Evola. Nor was the terrorist group NAR ever connected to Fiore's early political venture, Terza Posizione. Neither does Roberto have nine sons. He has ten children, three of whom are boys.
Mathaba.net - This article originates from Lyndon LaRouche's network and is utterly laughable to anyone in Europe who knows anything about football. As with all the other sources, LaRouche and his people follow a particular agenda that is hostile to orthodox Catholic teaching, and to genuine patriotic instincts. The lack of quality and accuracy of their "research" is notorious, as can easily be attested to by any Catholic who takes the trouble to read one of their other "exposes" entitled "Who is Snuffing Your Neighbour's Kittens." http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2002/29...kttns.html
This "expose" accuses the broad-based Catholic traditionalist movement, such as those surrounding The Remnant and related organs, Christendom College folk and even some at a diocesan parish of conspiring together in a Carlist (sic) conspiracy!

The author of the article about Roberto Fiore is the subject of an ongoing libel and defamation case begun some 18 months or so ago in Italy. It is from this particular syndicated article that the calumnies concerning Roberto Fiore's 'brother-in-law' and football hooliganism originate. It is also interesting to note that the article also attempts to smear Roberto Fiore's name with connection to terrorist activity by claiming an alleged link to Andrea Insabato, who was convicted for attempting to blow up a Roman communist newspaper office a few years ago. Insabato was not even a member of Fiore's political organization, and the two have never even met, but apparently, like hundreds of thousands of other Italian citizens, he had attended one or two public rallies held by Forza Nuova. The article also neglects to mention that Insabato was a registered psychiatric patient. Some terrorist link! They also claim that Terza Posizione was linked to a string of terrorist attacks from the 1969 Piazza Fontana bombing to the 1980 Bologna bombing. Yet, the court record clearly states that such claims are lies. In fact, TP was founded by Roberto Fiore in 1977. In 1969, Mr. Fiore was ten or eleven years old!
 
Institute for Jewish Policy Research - Nothing much need be said here except that they admit that their (dis)information is taken from Searchlight magazine. They even go so far as to posit the idea that Roberto Fiore was arrested and returned to Italy due to some newspaper "exposes" about Catholic charities. Such utter nonsense. Roberto Fiore had applied for an Italian passport some time before this and it had been denied him by an Italian judge. It turned out that the blocking judge was a Communist. A different judge issued Roberto with a passport and he returned home to Italy with his family. He was not arrested or imprisoned for anything in England, nor after returning to Italy. Just more lies!
Irish Anti Fascist Action/Stop the BNP/Searchlight - These are all Communist organisations. Irish AFA is an offshoot of AFA in Britain and spends its time attempting to organise violent attacks upon anti-abortion rallies in Ireland. Once again, the article indicates that its information comes from Searchlight magazine, which is a bit rich considering that AFA, as with numerous groups across the political spectrum, recognise that the purpose of Searchlight is to act as a disinformation conduit.

Virtually all of these lies can be traced back to Searchlight magazine. Searchlight actually make the SPLC look like a bunch of boy scouts. In fact there is good reason to suspect that SPLC lifted much of its recent "expose" against the "dirty dozen" Catholic "hate groups" right from a Searchlight article which paved the way for their smear. http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/index.php?link=template&story=16

Evidence for this can be seen by comparing the charges in the Searchlight piece with those of the SPLC report. The latter even contains some of the same errors that the former reported, and hits all the main figures of traditional Catholicism, with special emphasis on and obvious hatred for the SSPX. So, what is Searchlight?
In December 1976, Searchlight was described by a British stipendiary magistrate, Mr. John Milward, as "scurrilous and disreputable ... What purpose can there be in advertising opponents' meetings except for the purpose of identifying them and creating disorder and violence? This seems to be an attempt to stir up trouble which is to be very strongly deprecated." - Birmingham Post 31/12/76.

The following are/were the main public players of this rag:
 
GERRY GABLE:
Editor of political journal Searchlight, shareholder of Searchlight Publishing Ltd., speaker at Searchlight Educational Trust conferences:
Although not named as such, it is very likely that Mr. Gable is one of the main organisers of SET. Mr. Gable was a member of the Young Communist League and the Communist Party of Great Britain. He left school at 15 years of age and started as a trainee journalist on the Communist Party's Daily Worker. After a year he left for what became a career as a Communist Party trade union official. He stood for the Communist Party on Thursday the 10th of May 1962 at Northfield Ward, Stamford Hill, North London. In November 1963 Mr. Gable was arrested and held at Hornsey police station following a bungled attempt to burgle the home of historian, David Irving. On the 14th of January 1964, Gable admitted breaking into the flat with intent to steal. His associate Manny Carpel (see later) also pleaded guilty. They were both fined £20. Gable was also fined £5 for stealing a General Post Office pass card.
 
HARRY BIDNEY:
The Zionist terror gang 'The 62 Group' (violent supporters of Menachem Begin's terrorist "Irgun" organisation in Israel) was unofficially based in the sordid Limbo Club in Soho, London. Gable was involved with the '62 Group' and the Limbo Club was managed by Harry Bidney. After his death Bidney was described by Searchlight as an "hero". In 1977 Bidney was found guilty of eight charges of living off the earnings of prostitutes. In court, Bidney was described as the company secretary of Calderhead Investments, which was headed by David Calderhead, who was jailed for, on his own admission, attempting to procure a 16-year-old boy to commit an act of gross indecency with the predatory homosexual Harry Bidney.
In the March 1997 edition of Searchlight Gerry Gable wrote of his joy at having a 60th birthday surprise party sprung on him by his fellow Searchlight criminals. He listed pimp Harry Bidney as one of just eight "old and dear friends" that had "passed on". But "The evening did not pass without fond memories of you all".
MANNY CARPEL:
Arrested alongside Gerry Gable (see above). On top of this, he was convicted the year before of assaulting P.C. William Nield and of having an offensive weapon (a metal butcher's hook). In 1967 he pleaded guilty, with Michael Cohen, of trying to break into a printing works (W.H. Jones Ltd. on 20th July, 1966) with intent to commit a felony and to possessing housebreaking tools by night. Later, when in court for setting fire to a print works in Uckfield, Sussex, and causing more than £50,000 worth of damage (November the 5th, 1980) he described himself as "a freelance journalist working for Searchlight". Despite his previous convictions, Carpel received a mere two and a half year sentence on the 13th of April 1981.
 
MAURICE LUDMER:
A former Searchlight editor, Ludmer was a Communist Party supporter. In 1963 he sponsored a Mrs. O'Brien as Communist Party candidate in Moseley Ward of Birmingham in the local elections. In 1967 he performed a similar service for the Communist Party candidate Mr. Brian M. Chambers. As late as 1986, Elizabeth Ludmer, his wife and shareholder in Searchlight Publishing Ltd., was throwing garden parties for the Trotskyite Socialist Workers Party at her Moseley home. Ludmer liked to promote violence against legal political meetings and demonstrations. An example of this was a meeting of the Young National Front at the Digbeth Hall in Birmingham in 1978. He was a member of the "steering committee" which whipped up a crowd which went on the rampage. The riot resulted in several police being badly injured and Saturday shoppers being terrorised by socialist thugs. Ludmer was also on the 'steering committee' of the Anti Nazi League in the 1970s. ANL was then, as it is now, a front for the Socialist Workers Party, but in those days was more of a 'broad front' containing people like Ludmer with his Communist Party connections. The 70's ANL was far more violent than today's version perhaps because the 70's SWP/ANL still contained the Red Action elements - kicked out in 1982 - who went on to form the extremely violent Anti-Fascist Action. Searchlight continues this "proud tradition" by publishing names, addresses, phone numbers and work places of political activists, thus 'setting them up' for attack.
 
DAVID EDGAR:
A Searchlight Publishing Ltd shareholder, this man was also on the editorial board of Marxism Today. He may possibly still be involved with both Searchlight and Marxism Today.
 
MICHAEL COHEN:
A Searchlight photographer and shareholder in Searchlight Publishing Ltd. He was also involved and found guilty of the 1963 burglary attempt alongside Gable and Roberts. He also pleaded guilty to the W.H. Jones attempted break-in with Carpel (see above).
 
There are a number of other players who share links with the Communist Party of Great Britain, serious criminal records and such like. Gerry Gable and his Searchlight "research" cost the BBC half a million pounds (£500,000) in libel fees when he acted as "Associate Producer" on a Panorama TV documentary broadcast in 1984 entitled "Maggie‘s Militant Tendency".
 
Whether one wants to take their political agenda into account, or not, it is plainly evident that Searchlight is not a source that any reasonable person, let alone a Catholic, would want to base their information upon.
 
Response:
Roberto Fiore is a Catholic political leader in Italy who founded and leads a movement, Forza Nuova. During the 1960's, 70's and 80's Italy was an extremely volatile and unstable country, often rocked by terrorist outrages, and largely controlled and influenced by Grand Orient Freemasonry and Organised Crime. Such nefarious activity reached far into government, industry, the judiciary, and the military. Against this background, Roberto Fiore, then a teenager, formed a youth orientated political organisation, Terza Posizione (Third Position) to provide an alternative to Communism, Capitalism and Freemasonry. Their activities involved such things as opposing Communist demonstrations on the streets and even going into schools during long term teachers' strikes and teaching those amongst the young people who wanted to continue their education. TP's ideas and actions earned them the unending animosity of both wings of the System. Eventually a politically motivated round up of young political activists resulted in hundreds being roughly treated, imprisoned, and the death, in mysterious circumstances, of several of them "whilst trying to escape". Roberto Fiore was one of those who managed to escape the sweep and eventually found refuge in England. An attempt at extradition was made by the Italian State but was laughed out of a British Court because no evidence - the British judge referred to the evidence as "mere hearsay" - of any crime could be presented and the charge was a political "offence" peculiar to Italy alone. In the late 1990's Italy had managed to stabilise itself once more to such a degree that Roberto Fiore and others could return home without stigma or immediate physical danger.
 
STATEMENT OF ROBERTO FIORE
Since the Bologna Massacre is the root of most of the lies against Roberto Fiore, it has been thought useful for him to provide to researchers the following Question & Answer format reply so that people can see just how malicious has been this story.
 
1. Were you ever accused by a court of being a member or even a leader of NAR?
RF: Never.
 
2. Were you ever found guilty by any court of being a member or leader of NAR?
 
RF: Never.
 
3. Was Terza Posizione (Roberto’s organization in the late 1970's) ever a part of NAR?
 
RF: No.
 
4. Did TP ever work with NAR?
 
RF: No.
 
5. What was NAR?

RF: NAR was a name used by different people at different times who were engaged in terrorism or armed struggle. However, at the beginning of 1980, the name, NAR, began to be used publicly by Valerio Fioravanti, who was later convicted by the courts of being one of those responsible for the Bologna massacre, along with Francesca Mambro. From that point onwards, the NAR name effectively "belonged" to Fioravanti and his gang. Furthermore, it needs to be remembered that it was made explicit both at the trial of Fioravanti for the massacre, and during my trial in abstentia, that Fioravanti was one of my declared enemies and that he had sought to have me killed.
 
6. Did it have leaders? If so, who were they?
 
RF: Principally Fioravanti, but there were others.
 
7. Were you ever accused by an Italian, or foreign, court of being involved in the Bologna Bombing?
 
RF: No.
 
8. Were you ever found guilty of being involved in the Bologna Bombing?
 
RF: No.
 
9. If you were not accused or found guilty, why is your name regularly mentioned in this connection?

RF: To understand this, you must first understand a little of the background history. The Bologna massacre took place on August 2nd, 1980. An arrest warrant was issued against me on September 23rd, 1980. I was one of many nationalists and anti-communists for whom warrants were issued. Hundreds of nationalists were arrested in this sweep; many of them spent years in prison, and most were found in the end to have been innocent of the various charges laid against them.
 
Obviously, I went into hiding immediately when the sweep began, and since I was not captured the trial took place in my absence. At the beginning of 1981, the Italian Military Secret Service (SISMI) began to put out so-called information that I had been involved in the attempted bombing of a train in January 1981 - the Milan/Taranto Express. There were found to be many similarities between the bombing in Bologna and the attempted bombing of the Express.
 
It later came out in the courts - all the documentation is in the Italian legal archives - that the "evidence" put forward against me had been fabricated. The determining trial relating to me and my alleged participation in the Bologna affair, concluded on July 11th, 1988 at the Court of Assizes in Bologna. Licio Gelli, the Grand Master of the P2 Pazienza Lodge, and the two leaders of SISMI, Musumeci and Belmonte, were found guilty of calumny and the fabrication of evidence against both myself and a number of others. I was actually awarded a small sum of money by way of damages in order to demonstrate that I was, in fact, an "offended party" in the whole matter relating to Bologna.
 
It is worth bearing in mind that all three men were sentenced to nine years imprisonment for their crimes.

10. Were Valerio Fioravanti or Francesca Mambro ever members of Terza Posizione?
 
RF: No.
 
11. Given that you were exonerated in respect of the Bologna massacre, did you take any legal steps against newspapers that stated you were involved? If so, when did you undertake these actions?
 
RF: Well, I began them shortly after I was declared an "offended party". So, I suppose we are talking about the end of 1988 or early 1989. The first one would have taken place in Italy, though I did sue a number of papers in England too with the passing of time.
 
12. Between then and now, how many papers have you sued in respect of the Bologna massacre?
 
RF: I don’t have a precise figure to hand but it is certainly around 70.
 
13. Seventy (70)!
 
RF: Yes.
 
14. How can it have been so high?
 
RF. Partly because of the stupidity of some writers, partly because articles were syndicated; and partly because the phraseology changed with time, and thus necessitated clarification. So, I would be "personally responsible" then I would be "involved", "implicated in", "associated with", "linked to" and so on. Each term was shown to be equivalent and thus any kind of accusation - however carefully framed - relating to the Bologna massacre is untrue and therefore legally actionable.
 
15. Of the seventy cases that you have pursued, how many of them have you won?
 
RF: All of them without exception.
 
16. Did they all go to court?
 
RF: No, many went to court and I won; but many also were settled out of court by the newspapers.
 
17. Are there any court actions still pending relating to Bologna, and if so how many?
 
RF: Yes, there are still some cases going on, but I cannot be precise about the number. I believe between half a dozen and a dozen.
 
18. What kind of papers have you sued?
 
RF: Mainly national and regional newspapers in Italy, though a couple in England. Examples are Corriere della Sera, La Repubblica, La Nazione, Il Messagero and so on.
 
19. Have the financial settlements reached with the newspapers been negligible?
 
RF: It depends on what you consider to be "negligible". I think that the average settlement has been between €20,000 - €40,000. In US dollars, something between $25,000 - $50,000.
A Final Note: Legal papers concerned with the various trials connected to the Bologna massacre are accessible through the Italian legal service should anyone wish to look into the matter at all. A website run by families of the victims of the massacre, which contains summaries and some full texts of some of the court documents, can be found here: http://www.stragi.it/index.php

Quote: Posted by avemariagratiaplena
Can you give me the names of the newspapers Roberto Fiore sued and the dates of all the relevant court appearances? Or even one relevant court appearance.
He mentioned some in the text above. If you want more details you will have to contact him and ask. He has a public e-mail address at the European Parliament. It is on his biography page at their website. 

Quote: Posted by avemariagratiaplena
Also the man was convicted in absentia for "subversive association" and sentenced to nine years, reduced to five and a half. Was that conviction overturned?
That "law" is merely political in nature and has no basis in moral law as has been mentioned on the thread already. It is irrelevant - unless it is seen as a badge of honour.

Quote: Posted by avemariagratiaplena
Are you asserting on this forum that the Bologna bombing was carried out by Freemasons and the evidence planted to make it look like a neo-fascist crime?
See Fiore's statement above.

Quote: Posted by avemariagratiaplena
And yes it is a problem that Fiore is the sucessor to Mussolini.
Tough. Take a hanky. It's not a problem for me nor virtually anyone else I know.

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#33
It wouldn't be a problem for you, would it? You're the former head of the Youth Wing of the National Front in Great Britain.  The people you know are probably mostly racists like yourself.

You even made a post here saying that marriage between mixed races was undesirable.

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#34
ggreg Wrote:It wouldn't be a problem for you, would it? You're the former head of the Youth Wing of the National Front in Great Britain.  The people you know are probably mostly racists like yourself.
Well, that's a slander.

Quote:You even made a post here saying that marriage between mixed races was undesirable.

Response by Pilgrimage of Grace in Red ...
I agree that it is not a good thing to lay overt stress upon racial background when considering marriage. Cultural differences are far more important and can provide extra stress and strains upon a marriage....


It's not such an outrageous quote after all, is it?
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#35
ggreg Wrote:It wouldn't be a problem for you, would it? You're the former head of the Youth Wing of the National Front in Great Britain.  The people you know are probably mostly racists like yourself.

You even made a post here saying that marriage between mixed races was undesirable.

#$%@, here we go again.

Though in re: the SSPX, I was browsing the Stormfront forums (*shudder*) and saw one poster who complained about all the interracial couples and children he saw at the local SSPX chapel. So it would seem that at least some SSPX priests are a-okay with it.
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#36
19th century secular European society was racist and massive phail in other departments as well. The backlash is still striking today and the idiots who still want it back need a wake up call.
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#37
Quote:Posted by gregg
The people you know are probably mostly racists like yourself
Quote: Posted by Clare
Well, that's a slander.
Don't worry about it, Clare. If he wants to play Russian Roulette with his soul that's his choice. Join me in offering a few prayers for him. [Image: prayer.gif]
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#38
Clare Wrote:
ggreg Wrote:It wouldn't be a problem for you, would it? You're the former head of the Youth Wing of the National Front in Great Britain.  The people you know are probably mostly racists like yourself.
Well, that's a slander.
Its only a slander if it is untrue and POG was the Head of the Youth Wing of the National Front in Great Britain.


Quote:You even made a post here saying that marriage between mixed races was undesirable.

Response by Pilgrimage of Grace in Red ...
I agree that it is not a good thing to lay overt stress upon racial background when considering marriage. Cultural differences are far more important and can provide extra stress and strains upon a marriage....


It's not such an outrageous quote after all, is it?
[/QUOTE]

Perhaps not, if the author stuck to those principles himself.  But a decade before he wrote what is in red above Pilgrimage of Grace married a Brazilian "mulatto" woman of a very dark complexion.  Which for a man from Norfolk, which the British like to joke are about as pedigree as people can come (i.e. inbred) is about as racially and culturally mixed as one can imagine.
 
I don't know about you but I find it hard to take a person at all seriously when they epouse ideas and principles which they have not stuck to themselves.  All seems a little fishy to me.
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#39
ggreg Wrote:
Clare Wrote:
ggreg Wrote:It wouldn't be a problem for you, would it? You're the former head of the Youth Wing of the National Front in Great Britain.  The people you know are probably mostly racists like yourself.
Well, that's a slander.
Its only a slander if it is untrue and POG was the Head of the Youth Wing of the National Front in Great Britain.
And St Mary Magdalen was a prostitute, and St Paul persecuted Christians.

The slander was the accusation of being a racist now, in the present tense.


Quote:
Quote:
Quote:You even made a post here saying that marriage between mixed races was undesirable.

Response by Pilgrimage of Grace in Red ...
I agree that it is not a good thing to lay overt stress upon racial background when considering marriage. Cultural differences are far more important and can provide extra stress and strains upon a marriage....


It's not such an outrageous quote after all, is it?


Perhaps not, if the author stuck to those principles himself.  But a decade before he wrote what is in red above Pilgrimage of Grace married a Brazilian "mulatto" woman of a very dark complexion. 
I can't see that he didn't stick to those principles. He said that race was not the most important factor. So how has he violated any principle?

Is he not racist enough or what?

What's your problem?
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#40
Archbishop_10K Wrote:
ggreg Wrote:It wouldn't be a problem for you, would it? You're the former head of the Youth Wing of the National Front in Great Britain.  The people you know are probably mostly racists like yourself.

You even made a post here saying that marriage between mixed races was undesirable.

#$%@, here we go again.

Though in re: the SSPX, I was browsing the Stormfront forums (*shudder*) and saw one poster who complained about all the interracial couples and children he saw at the local SSPX chapel. So it would seem that at least some SSPX priests are a-okay with it.

There are interacial couples in the SSPX at least here in the UK.  My brother is married to a Hong Kong Chinese who grew up in a slum tenament.  My sister is married to an Italian, I'm married to a Russian and my brother is married to a Spaniard.  London in particular is a huge melting pot and the SSPX back in the 1980s reflected that with Nigerians, West Africans, Chinese, Philippinos, loads of Irish, Italians, South Africans and even a black 80 year old West Indian guy with the rather unfortunate name of "Adolf".

Even Pilgrimage of Grace is married to a Brazilian who, to look at, appears more negro than white-Portuguese which is why the racist-fascist agenda he pushes on Catholic forums is so screwed up.  At least Fiore married a woman from the same continent.  As I understand it, his friends in the ITP/NF/FN (or whatever their name was that particular month) were none too impressed when they saw his carefully considered choice of bride.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/christians...essage/317

The latent racism found in the SSPX is a direct off-shoot of the fascism which comes from France, Spain and Italy predominently.

See Political Soldier blog.  I cannot see anyway these racist ideas can be squared with Catholicism.


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