Ron Paul supporters...
Vincentius Wrote:voxpopulisuxx, your language goes beyond decency, decorum, and above all, Charity.  This school of thought leads to a derange mind.  I don't know how the owners of this forum can tolerate such diatribe.

You talk of morality as though you know what it is.  None of the men running for president are anywhere near true Catholic morals.  They're Protestants.  Think about that.  Like I stated elsewhere and I'm sounding like a broken record already, vote your conscience, vote Catholic.  There is no hypocrisy in that.

Are you asserting I dont know what morality is? In the same breath you falsely accuse me of uncharity! Hypocrite.

Neither men are even decent protestants.
And the Catholic vote is counted by the saints and apostles not by cnbc or fox, so thank you, after this election my conscience will be clear.

As to tolerating my diatribe as you put it...I guess your not a fan of menken, or chesterton or belloc, and since when are the phrases poppy cock and balderdash and bovine excrement beyond decency??? How about if I say, hypocrite! Vipers! Whitewashed tombs! would that be more decent.?
And there is no more of a deranged train of thought then the one that says keep voting republican no matter what because, hey they say theyre pro-life.......
WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote:

Vincentius, are you new to voxpopulisuxx?  It's pretty much his standard routine.  He's one of the people you can politly skip over because you know what he's going to say.

Or as in your case skip me over because you cant defend your liberal positions. Your effeminent insults never cease to bore me walberg
HailGilbert Wrote:Sir, with all due respect, the complaining will NEVER end. And in turn, we will not vote for a lip-service "pro-lifer" like McCain.

Thank you for your time.

Let's look at the "lip service" John McCain gave with his votes...
  • Voting Record
  • Supports repealing Roe v. Wade. (May 2007)
  • Voted YES on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP. (Mar 2008)
  • Voted YES on barring HHS grants to organizations that perform abortions. (Oct 2007)
  • Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
  • Voted YES on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
  • Voted NO on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
  • Voted YES on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime. (Mar 2004)
  • Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions except for maternal life. (Mar 2003)
  • Voted YES on maintaining ban on Military Base Abortions. (Jun 2000)
  • Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions. (Oct 1999)
  • Voted YES on banning human cloning. (Feb 1998)
  • Rated 0% by NARAL, indicating a pro-life voting record. (Dec 2003)
  • Expand embryonic stem cell research. (Jun 2004)
  • Rated 75% by the NRLC, indicating a mixed record on abortion. (Dec 2006)
  • Prohibit transporting minors across state lines for abortion. (Jan 2008)

This is from NARAL's web site...

Voting Record:
Sen. McCain has an anti-choice record. He received the following scores on NARAL Pro-Choice America's Congressional Record on Choice.
2007: 0 percent
2006: 0 percent
2005: 0 percent
2004: 0 percent
2003: 0 percent
2002: 0 percent
2001: Because only one choice-related vote was taken in 2001 – to confirm John Ashcroft as United States Attorney General – no numerical score was given for the year. Sen. McCain voted anti-choice.
See all of Sen. McCain's scores from 1987-2006.

Public Statements about Choice:

A selection of Sen. McCain's public statements on this issue is below.
  • In response to a question about abortion posed by Pastor Rick Warren, McCain responded that he believes life begins "at the moment of conception." He continued, "I have a 25-year pro-life record in the Congress, in the Senate. And as president of the United States, I will be a pro-life president and this presidency will have pro-life policies. That's my commitment, that's my commitment to you."
    [Transcript, Saddleback Civil Forum on the Presidency, August 16, 2008.]

  • Sen. McCain told Chris Matthews, "the rights of the unborn is one of my most important values."
    [Transcript, Hardball with Chris Matthews, April 15, 2008.]

  • "I’m proud that we have Justice Alito and Roberts on the United States Supreme Court. I’m very proud to have played a very small role in making that happen." McCain explained further that he "will try to find clones of Alito and Roberts" to fill future court vacancies.
    [Transcript, Republican Presidential Candidates Participate in a Debate, May 3, 2007, and Carl Tobias, On judges, don’t doubt McCain’s conservatism: He pledges to appoint clones of Alito and Roberts, Christian Science Monitor, February 11, 2008.]

  • "If I am fortunate enough to be elected as the next President of the United States, I pledge to you to be a loyal and unswerving friend of the right to life movement."
    [Statement by Sen. McCain read by Sen. Sam Brownback at the March for Life in Washington, DC, January 22, 2008. (accessed January 30, 2008.)]

  • On the Federal Abortion Ban, Sen. McCain said, "Today's Supreme Court ruling is a victory for those who cherish the sanctity of life and integrity of the judiciary. The ruling ensures that an unacceptable and unjustifiable practice will not be carried out on our innocent children. It also clearly speaks to the importance of nominating and confirming strict constructionist judges who interpret the law as it is written, and do not usurp the authority of Congress and state legislatures. As we move forward, it is critically important that our party continues to stand on the side of life."
    [Press release, April 18, 2007 (accessed February 4, 2008).]

  • Sen. McCain said that he has supported "the rights of the unborn" for 24 years "without changing, without wavering."
    [Michael Finnegan, Republicans Enter the Ring in Iowa; At a Key Party Dinner, Frontrunners for the Presidential Nomination Take a Beating From Lesser-Known Rivals, L.A. Times, April 15, 2007.]

  • When asked about whether he supported supplying condoms to Africa to assist in the fight against HIV/AIDS, McCain had the following exchange with a reporter:
    Reporter: "What about grants for sex education in the United States? Should they include instructions about using contraceptives? Or should it be Bush’s policy, which is just abstinence?"
    Mr. McCain: (Long pause) "Ahhh. I think I support the president’s policy.
    Reporter: "So no contraception, no counseling on contraception. Just abstinence. Do you think contraceptives help stop the spread of HIV?"
    Mr. McCain: (Long pause) "You've stumped me."
    [Adam Nagourney, McCain Stumbles on H.I.V. Prevention, The New York Times, March 16, 2007.]

  • Discussing his pro-life voting record, McCain said, "I have many, many votes and it's been consistent. And I've got a consistent zero from NARAL throughout all those years... [M]y record is clear. And I think the important thing is you look at people's voting record because sometimes rhetoric can be a little... misleading.... As you know I don't support Roe v. Wade... I thought it was a bad decision, and I think that the decision should be made in the states."
    [Transcript, The Full McCain: An Interview, National Review, March 5, 2007.]

  • "I do not support Roe v. Wade. It should be overturned."
    [Ann Althouse, Rudy & Mitt Hem & Haw on Abortion, The New York Times, February 24, 2007.]

  • Sen. McCain's 2008 presidential campaign website states that he "believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned."
    [John McCain for President 2008 campaign website, On the Issues: Human Dignity and the Sanctity of Life (accessed February 4, 2008.)]

Did he attempt to overturn the F.A.C.E. law?
no so hes a lipservice pro-lifer. because all you posted above were safe votes, with little risk to his career.
Also how did he vote on the war on Iraq? patriot act? What is his support of Zionist Israel about? What happened with Karl Keating, back in the day? What about his support of the armed robbery called the bailout? Hmmm I seem to think there were a few more commandments out there as well as thou shalt not commit murder.(Iraq is arguably an act of murder)
Thou shalt not steal, committ adultery etc....

I support the war in Iraq, I support the Patriot act, are you an anti-Semite? But no matter how you feel about these issues, as Catholics we are allowed to have our own personal opinions on these issues. With abortion there is no room to have our own personal opinions. Of course apparently you don't understand this which is why it's senseless to argue with ignoramuses like yourself.


voxpopulisuxx Wrote:Did he attempt to overturn the F.A.C.E. law?
no so hes a lipservice pro-lifer. because all you posted above were safe votes, with little risk to his career.
Also how did he vote on the war on Iraq? patriot act? What is his support of Zionist Israel about? What happened with Karl Keating, back in the day? What about his support of the armed robbery called the bailout? Hmmm I seem to think there were a few more commandments out there as well as thou shalt not commit murder.(Iraq is arguably an act of murder)
Thou shalt not steal, committ adultery etc....
Credo Wrote:If McCain wins the standard fare of GOP "conservatism" will continue indefinitely. Maybe the debacle of Obama will be so bad it will arouse a true conservative movement in this country.

This I can agree with you on which is why Rush Limbaugh says no matter if McCain wins or loses the biggest thing that will have to happen is the conservative base will have to be rebuilt. Both Rush and I agree that it's good to have all these liberal Republicans defecting to Obama. They were never conservatives to begin with and I hope these liberals stay with the Democrats and don't come back.

We need a new leader of the conservative movement to emerge after this election, that is without question. It could be Sarah Palin or it could be someone we haven't heard of yet.

The problem is, Obama is too much of a danger to our country to just elect him and hope to get a real Conservative movement in 2010 for Congress and 2012 for President. By then the Dems will have done too much damage to our country. As Rush said, the only hope we have as a country is to drag McCain over the finish line and then fight him once he gets in to keep him honest. It's a lot easier to get our way with McCain then it will be with an Obama administration with a super majority vote in Congress.

This is why it's imperetive to get John McCain elected President.

Quote:Just a point of semantics here:

Is Bill Ayers is a terrorist. Yes. Is he a "radical" terrorist? No, not in the same vein as Al Qaeda in Iraq who would take off people's faces with piano wire, and conduct "brain surgery" with power drills. We should all be careful with our words. Accuracy matters.

He is radical because he is 100% anti American and he is a 100% socialist. One of the many things that bother me about Obama isn't the fact that he is friends with this terrorist, but the fact that he subscribes to Ayers radical agenda in education. Here is a good article all about this radical terrorist.
Despite having authored two autobiographies, Barack Obama has never written about his most important executive experience. From 1995 to 1999, he led an education foundation called the Chicago Annenberg Challenge (CAC), and remained on the board until 2001. The group poured more than $100 million into the hands of community organizers and radical education activists.
[Image: ED-AI268_kurtz_DV_20080922190134.jpg] AP

Bill Ayers.

The CAC was the brainchild of Bill Ayers, a founder of the Weather Underground in the 1960s. Among other feats, Mr. Ayers and his cohorts bombed the Pentagon, and he has never expressed regret for his actions. Barack Obama's first run for the Illinois State Senate was launched at a 1995 gathering at Mr. Ayers's home.
The Obama campaign has struggled to downplay that association. Last April, Sen. Obama dismissed Mr. Ayers as just "a guy who lives in my neighborhood," and "not somebody who I exchange ideas with on a regular basis." Yet documents in the CAC archives make clear that Mr. Ayers and Mr. Obama were partners in the CAC. Those archives are housed in the Richard J. Daley Library at the University of Illinois at Chicago and I've recently spent days looking through them.
The Chicago Annenberg Challenge was created ostensibly to improve Chicago's public schools. The funding came from a national education initiative by Ambassador Walter Annenberg. In early 1995, Mr. Obama was appointed the first chairman of the board, which handled fiscal matters. Mr. Ayers co-chaired the foundation's other key body, the "Collaborative," which shaped education policy.
The CAC's basic functioning has long been known, because its annual reports, evaluations and some board minutes were public. But the Daley archive contains additional board minutes, the Collaborative minutes, and documentation on the groups that CAC funded and rejected. The Daley archives show that Mr. Obama and Mr. Ayers worked as a team to advance the CAC agenda.
One unsettled question is how Mr. Obama, a former community organizer fresh out of law school, could vault to the top of a new foundation? In response to my questions, the Obama campaign issued a statement saying that Mr. Ayers had nothing to do with Obama's "recruitment" to the board. The statement says Deborah Leff and Patricia Albjerg Graham (presidents of other foundations) recruited him. Yet the archives show that, along with Ms. Leff and Ms. Graham, Mr. Ayers was one of a working group of five who assembled the initial board in 1994. Mr. Ayers founded CAC and was its guiding spirit. No one would have been appointed the CAC chairman without his approval.
The CAC's agenda flowed from Mr. Ayers's educational philosophy, which called for infusing students and their parents with a radical political commitment, and which downplayed achievement tests in favor of activism. In the mid-1960s, Mr. Ayers taught at a radical alternative school, and served as a community organizer in Cleveland's ghetto.
In works like "City Kids, City Teachers" and "Teaching the Personal and the Political," Mr. Ayers wrote that teachers should be community organizers dedicated to provoking resistance to American racism and oppression. His preferred alternative? "I'm a radical, Leftist, small 'c' communist," Mr. Ayers said in an interview in Ron Chepesiuk's, "Sixties Radicals," at about the same time Mr. Ayers was forming CAC.
CAC translated Mr. Ayers's radicalism into practice. Instead of funding schools directly, it required schools to affiliate with "external partners," which actually got the money. Proposals from groups focused on math/science achievement were turned down. Instead CAC disbursed money through various far-left community organizers, such as the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (or Acorn).
Mr. Obama once conducted "leadership training" seminars with Acorn, and Acorn members also served as volunteers in Mr. Obama's early campaigns. External partners like the South Shore African Village Collaborative and the Dual Language Exchange focused more on political consciousness, Afrocentricity and bilingualism than traditional education. CAC's in-house evaluators comprehensively studied the effects of its grants on the test scores of Chicago public-school students. They found no evidence of educational improvement.
CAC also funded programs designed to promote "leadership" among parents. Ostensibly this was to enable parents to advocate on behalf of their children's education. In practice, it meant funding Mr. Obama's alma mater, the Developing Communities Project, to recruit parents to its overall political agenda. CAC records show that board member Arnold Weber was concerned that parents "organized" by community groups might be viewed by school principals "as a political threat." Mr. Obama arranged meetings with the Collaborative to smooth out Mr. Weber's objections.
The Daley documents show that Mr. Ayers sat as an ex-officio member of the board Mr. Obama chaired through CAC's first year. He also served on the board's governance committee with Mr. Obama, and worked with him to craft CAC bylaws. Mr. Ayers made presentations to board meetings chaired by Mr. Obama. Mr. Ayers spoke for the Collaborative before the board. Likewise, Mr. Obama periodically spoke for the board at meetings of the Collaborative.
The Obama campaign notes that Mr. Ayers attended only six board meetings, and stresses that the Collaborative lost its "operational role" at CAC after the first year. Yet the Collaborative was demoted to a strictly advisory role largely because of ethical concerns, since the projects of Collaborative members were receiving grants. CAC's own evaluators noted that project accountability was hampered by the board's reluctance to break away from grant decisions made in 1995. So even after Mr. Ayers's formal sway declined, the board largely adhered to the grant program he had put in place.
Mr. Ayers's defenders claim that he has redeemed himself with public-spirited education work. That claim is hard to swallow if you understand that he views his education work as an effort to stoke resistance to an oppressive American system. He likes to stress that he learned of his first teaching job while in jail for a draft-board sit-in. For Mr. Ayers, teaching and his 1960s radicalism are two sides of the same coin.
Mr. Ayers is the founder of the "small schools" movement (heavily funded by CAC), in which individual schools built around specific political themes push students to "confront issues of inequity, war, and violence." He believes teacher education programs should serve as "sites of resistance" to an oppressive system. (His teacher-training programs were also CAC funded.) The point, says Mr. Ayers in his "Teaching Toward Freedom," is to "teach against oppression," against America's history of evil and racism, thereby forcing social transformation.
The Obama campaign has cried foul when Bill Ayers comes up, claiming "guilt by association." Yet the issue here isn't guilt by association; it's guilt by participation. As CAC chairman, Mr. Obama was lending moral and financial support to Mr. Ayers and his radical circle. That is a story even if Mr. Ayers had never planted a single bomb 40 years ago.
Mr. Kurtz is a senior fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center.


Chuck baldwin speaks to this issue.
Quote:[quote='Petertherock']I support the war in Iraq, I support the Patriot act, are you an anti-Semite? But no matter how you feel about these issues, as Catholics we are allowed to have our own personal opinions on these issues. With abortion there is no room to have our own personal opinions. Of course apparently you don't understand this which is why it's senseless to argue with ignoramuses like yourself.

So you only support American Life not Iraqi?
So the semetic peoples called palistinian Christians dont deserve your support. 
(AND FYI Zionist Israel has nothing to do with the race of people).

And the Ability of the US government to abolish the 4th amendment, and habeus corpus, has your full support?
And watch out I got slammed for lack of charity for writing poppycock and balderdash...calling people ignoramuses and ant-semites might be at least considered rude.



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