Issues
#11

Do you show any affection to your wife in her "unsafe" period?  Like giving her a nice hug while she is fixing dinner, or snuggling a bit on the couch?  Nothing that should lead you to get aroused or anything, but if she  knows you know it is her "unsafe" period, she might appreciate that you are willing to be loving when it is not a prelude to more intimate relations. 

 

However, if 2 kids is her threshold, I think you have more serious problems....yes, it's up to the couple to decide when to use NFP, but it might be good to consult a good priest.

 

Christina

Reply
#12
Satori Wrote:You know, I looked over your original post again and something jumped out at me that slipped past before -- that NFP knocks out three weeks of the month for marital relations. This isn't true! The average number of abstinence days is about a week to 10 days, depending on the wife's cycle and how strict a version of the rules you use. Stress and some physical problems can also lead to long periods of abstinence, but this is the exception, not the rule.

Perhaps both you and your wife have a poor understanding of NFP and should be trained by a qualified teaching couple. It may be that your wife doesn't understand the method very well and fears getting pregnant. If she felt more confident, maybe she wouldn't refuse so often. I'm thinking if her relationship with you got back on track, there would then be a possibility that she would become more open to children, which is often a result of practicing NFP properly and prayerfully.

Prayers for you.

I just wanted to second what Satori has said.  Couple to Couple League has some excellent teaching information.  There is another excellent book, though not Catholic (or even Christian) called Taking Charge of Your Fertility that is a sympto-thermal method.  Perhaps a better understanding of the various methods of fertility awareness would increase your wife's confidence in the method.  Three weeks of abstinence should not be the norm.

LaRoza Wrote:So do I. Not only is it not a sin, that is coercion and suitable for charges of rape.

LaRoza, we are not to refuse conjugal relations when our spouse requests them without a sufficient reason.  The Church does teach that conjugal relations are a debt owed in marriage.  We cannot just refuse to have sex with our spouse. 

To consistently refuse the marital debt is a sin.  And, God forbid, our spouse should be placed at risk of falling into sexual sin, in any part due to our refusal to render the marital debt, we shoulder some of the burden of their sin as well.

I also disagree that pointing out Church teaching on the matter is "coercion and suitable for charges of rape."  That is inflammatory rhetoric and has no place in this conversation.

That being said, I agree that while you are addressing this very serious marital issue, BeateMariae, you should not bring this up.

As a woman my suggestion would be to become more knowledgeable about and involved in the charting and tracking of the signs of fertility.  If you are more familiar with the method, the symptoms and the timing of marital relations you wife may feel less burdened by the responsibility and more open to expanding the "safe" time (and perhaps eventually with being open to new life in the future).
Reply
#13
SouthernCatholic Wrote:LaRoza, we are not to refuse conjugal relations when our spouse requests them without a sufficient reason. The Church does teach that conjugal relations are a debt owed in marriage. We cannot just refuse to have sex with our spouse.
Like I said, open communication channels. Obviously, it has not be refused (they have two children), and there may likely be a good reason. Perhaps she doesn't think she can raise another child sufficiently, that would be a valid reason, no?

Quote:To consistently refuse the marital debt is a sin. And, God forbid, our spouse should be placed at risk of falling into sexual sin, in any part due to our refusal to render the marital debt, we shoulder some of the burden of their sin as well.
Sorry, my point of view was from the legal aspect, and from some people I know, whose very abusive husband constantly used the "its a sin" to take advantage. The woman is no longer a Catholic, perhaps because of his example.

Quote:I also disagree that pointing out Church teaching on the matter is "coercion and suitable for charges of rape." That is inflammatory rhetoric and has no place in this conversation.
Legally speaking, trying to convince someone using fear is coercion.

I am not a lawyer, so I won't go into more detail. I would highly recommend the OP work on communication, without resorting to such tactics.
Reply
#14
LaRoza Wrote:I am not a lawyer, so I won't go into more detail. I would highly recommend the OP work on communication, without resorting to such tactics.

I am assuming that you are also not a priest or a Canon lawyer.  Thus your assumptions based on your understanding (admittedly incomplete) of civil law are not applicable.

I also assume from your "Sex: Virgin" response in your profile that you are not married and are thus not offering your opinion from a stance of experience with marriage, conjugal relations or first hand experience with marital discord.

Discussing Church teaching on the subject of marital relations and the marital debt (which goes both ways, by the way) is NOT coercion or fear.  It is uncharitable and shortsighted of you to compare the original poster to your alleged example of an abusive husband.

The fact remains that prolonged abstinence from the marital act must be a matter of mutual consent.  One spouse who "doesn't think she can raise another child sufficiently" may or may not be a valid reason.  It is not something anyone here can possibly judge as we have no facts beyond the OP's statements.

Generally speaking, however, no that is not a valid reason to consistently deny your spouse the marital debt.  Particularly since it is truly not the decision of only one spouse.  When we marry we become on flesh.  To unilaterally decide to have no more children without the active participation of your spouse and to then deny relations based on that decision is decidedly not fitting with a sacramental bond.
Reply
#15
SouthernCatholic Wrote:
Satori Wrote:You know, I looked over your original post again and something jumped out at me that slipped past before -- that NFP knocks out three weeks of the month for marital relations. This isn't true! The average number of abstinence days is about a week to 10 days, depending on the wife's cycle and how strict a version of the rules you use. Stress and some physical problems can also lead to long periods of abstinence, but this is the exception, not the rule.

Perhaps both you and your wife have a poor understanding of NFP and should be trained by a qualified teaching couple. It may be that your wife doesn't understand the method very well and fears getting pregnant. If she felt more confident, maybe she wouldn't refuse so often. I'm thinking if her relationship with you got back on track, there would then be a possibility that she would become more open to children, which is often a result of practicing NFP properly and prayerfully.

Prayers for you.

I just wanted to second what Satori has said.  Couple to Couple League has some excellent teaching information.  There is another excellent book, though not Catholic (or even Christian) called Taking Charge of Your Fertility that is a sympto-thermal method.  Perhaps a better understanding of the various methods of fertility awareness would increase your wife's confidence in the method.  Three weeks of abstinence should not be the norm.

This is good advice.  It is also worth kindly and charitably repeating that NFP is not your only problem here.  I'll send a prayer your way.
Reply
#16
This poor fellow needs a wheelbarrow.

I thought that NFP was promoted to 'bring a couple closer and a deep understanding of each other' :laughing: What a crock.

Seriously though, I do feel for you, BeateMariae but you gotta stand up for yourself. Not only in this regard but every other aspect of Marriage/Family life.
You're under the thumb at the minute dude. You wear the pants but she tells you which ones to pull on.

MAN UP. :mad:

Every couple that I have met that has used NFP has either regretted it or one of the couple is very unhappy.



Reply
#17
Marty Wrote:Every couple that I have met that has used NFP has either regretted it or one of the couple is very unhappy.

And everyone I know, myself included, is very happy with it [Image: shrug.gif]

Anecdotal evidence doesn't mean anything.  It's like if I said "everyone I know with blond hair is happier than those with brown hair.  Therefore, blond hair makes you happy."
Reply
#18
...
Reply
#19
Don't feel like a dufus, friend. Probably you got your NFP information from somebody who's totally opposed to it and thought to turn you off that way.
Reply
#20
I must ask, I hope you don't mind: does your wife wear curlers and walk around in a silk nightie with a cigarette dangling from her lips?
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)