One more Gaza thread...
#21
ggreg Wrote:Moreover if war is a consquence of sin, (as Our Lady of Fatima suggested) then we are long overdue a BIG war.  Because BOY have our generation sinned or what?

War is always inevitable. Rome went 200 years without war during the Pax Romana.

I don't think since the USA's creation at least we have gone 50 years without a rather large military conflict.
Reply
#22
LaRoza Wrote:
ggreg Wrote:Moreover if war is a consquence of sin, (as Our Lady of Fatima suggested) then we are long overdue a BIG war.  Because BOY have our generation sinned or what?

War is always inevitable. Rome went 200 years without war during the Pax Romana.

I don't think since the USA's creation at least we have gone 50 years without a rather large military conflict.
Pax Americana means worldwide freedom and Democracy.....
And if you don't come to Democracy, Democracy will come to you.......

[Image: b-1b_dropping_m_%2082_bombs.jpe]
Reply
#23
ggreg Wrote:They are only being set upon with the same violence which they've historically used on every land they've conquored.

...they can't justifyably complain when they die by the sword too.

...I can see how Tibetan monks or Quakers can complain about violence being used against them, but Muslims?  Give me a break.

Yes, those dead Muslim Palestinian children, over 200 of them in 2 weeks, certainly got what was coming to them...

How anyone, especially Catholics, can show any ounce of support for what Israel is doing is disgusting. This isn't just part of war. It is total war, and it is an abomination.

The idea that Muslims have no right to "complain about violence being used against them" is absolutely horrifying.

Lets imagine for a moment that X subscribes to the idea that America has a duty as the police of the world and that unjust wars for democracy and imperial gain are legitimate and necessary. Being most likely an American of the red-blooded Republican/neocon variety, this is something "enshrined in their culture", as you say. If X has committed no violent crime and are guilty only of persisting in this error, does X have the right to "justifyably complain when they die by the sword"?

Please do not look at innocent civilians as anything other than innocent civilians. Every soul is infinitely valuable. If innocent Catholic civilians were being slaughtered, it would be equally evil.
Reply
#24
DeusVult Wrote:
ggreg Wrote:They are only being set upon with the same violence which they've historically used on every land they've conquored.

...they can't justifyably complain when they die by the sword too.

...I can see how Tibetan monks or Quakers can complain about violence being used against them, but Muslims?  Give me a break.

Yes, those dead Muslim Palestinian children, over 200 of them in 2 weeks, certainly got what was coming to them...

How anyone, especially Catholics, can show any ounce of support for what Israel is doing is disgusting. This isn't just part of war. It is total war, and it is an abomination.

The idea that Muslims have no right to "complain about violence being used against them" is absolutely horrifying.

Lets imagine for a moment that X subscribes to the idea that America has a duty as the police of the world and that unjust wars for democracy and imperial gain are legitimate and necessary. Being most likely an American of the red-blooded Republican/neocon variety, this is something "enshrined in their culture", as you say. If X has committed no violent crime and are guilty only of persisting in this error, does X have the right to "justifyably complain when they die by the sword"?

Please do not look at innocent civilians as anything other than innocent civilians. Every soul is infinitely valuable. If innocent Catholic civilians were being slaughtered, it would be equally evil.

That was very well put DeusVult.

Actually, what ggreg is doing is the usual way in which people "justify" all manner of barbarous activity.  "We do it to 'them' because they would do it to us". 

Of course, how they define "them" is a big part of it. Some Muslims indisputably do barbarous things (as do some Christians, Jews, etc).  Therefore, people of that mindset have no sympathy for "them".  In taking that position, they become no better than the "them" that they claim to disdain so much.

I suppose that is why we have so many wars and killing - since the ones doing it/supporting it can always claim that the people being attacked would have done it to them, since they come from a society where people have done it in the past.
Reply
#25
We are not doing it to them?  The Israelis are. I don't particularly like either side but forced to pick sides I'd choose the Israelis since they appear to be the more civilized of the two.

No civilian is innocent.  Even children are guilty of Original Sin.  The sins of the parents are visited on the children and we see that all the time in our culture.  Perhaps in the grand scheme of things the children are better off in Limbo than growing up to worship a false God.

When the west collapses you won't find me complaining.  I never had abortions or partook of the worst of my cultures sins, but equally I was no saint either and don't expect God to make an exception.  The good will be killed along with the wicked I believe it says in several prophecies.

A culture that was born in violence, worships violence, has a violent pedophile as their prophet and sees a violent murderous death as a way to Heaven and has subjegated a billion people under its yoke by violence- does not elicit much sympathy from me when violence is done to it.  They should be happy to submit to the Will of Allah.  Let their hyper-violent Satanic god and child abusing prophet save them.
Reply
#26
GregPotemkin Wrote:I suppose that is why we have so many wars and killing - since the ones doing it/supporting it can always claim that the people being attacked would have done it to them, since they come from a society where people have done it in the past.

No we have wars because of sin.  Our Lady said so at Fatima.  YOU stop sinning and wars will stop.
Reply
#27
The USA is a puppet regime of Israel end of story.....
H. Res. 34
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2009-10

House Vote On Passage: H. Res. 34: Recognizing Israel's right to defend itself against attacks...
Vote Number:House Vote #10 in 2009 [primary source]
Date:Jan 9, 2009 1:40PM
Result: Passed
Related Bill:H. Res. 34: Recognizing Israel's right to defend itself against attacks from Gaza, reaffirming...
Overview
TotalsDemocratsRepublicansIndependents
All Votes
[Image: chart?cht=p3&chs=250x100&chd=t:1.1547344...s,00000000]
Yea:390(90%)
2221680
Nay:5(1%)410
Present:22(5%)2200
Not Voting:16(4%)880
Required: 2/3 of 417 votes (=278 votes) (Vacancies in Congress may affect vote totals.)
[Image: chart?cht=p&chs=50x50&chd=t:1.5625,86.71...s,00000000]
[Image: chart?cht=p&chs=50x50&chd=t:0.5649717514...s,00000000]
[Image: chart?cht=p&chs=50x50&chd=t:NaN,NaN,NaN&...s,00000000]
Votes
Cartogram
[Image: h2009-10.png]
Standard Projection
[Image: h2009-10.png]Cartograms give an equal area in an image to an equal number of votes by distorting the image. Senate vote cartograms are shown with each state stretched or shrunk so that the states each take up an equal area because each state has two votes. For House votes, it is each congressional district which is stretched or shrunk.
Reply
#28
LaRoza Wrote:Also, I think that in all wars the innocent suffer a lot more than the soldiers. If you look at the casualties of all the wars, I don't think you will find a single one where the death's of the soldiers is greater than the deaths of civilians.

It doesn't have to be that way.  Prior to the 20th century, that was not the case among the nations of Christendom.  The US War Between States is a great example of a war where very few civilians were killed (except by the despicable total war tactics of Sherman and those of his ilk).  But that old school sort of warfare requires true heroism and courage, because you had to see the face of the enemy you fought (which means you're less likely to blow away a house full of women and children).  Today, it's like a video game, where remote drones, bombers, and long-range artillery do most of our fighting (can you tell I don't have much respect for the Air Force?).  I still give props to the Marines and Army infantry, though.  I sympathize with the struggles of the grunt on the ground.
Reply
#29
LaRoza Wrote:Murder requires specific intent. I do not think Israel specifically kills infants (or even non combatants, although they do seem to be quite heavy handed, I am not aware of the situation in full to make a judgement).

Hamas, however, specifically targets civilians.

You're right.  Murder does require specific intent, which the Israelis have.  You can't tell me that the Israelis didn't mean to shoot on that UN humanitarian supply truck.  Of course, they're trying to blame Hamas, but anyone in their right mind can see that Hamas has no motive to stop UN trucks from bringing food and medicine to their own people.

In the eyes of the Israelis, you're probably right.  It isn't murder to them, because they see murder as killing other Jews.  If it's a goy, it's no different than slaughtering animals.  The Israelis are very open about this racist mentality (caution: some strong language).
Reply
#30
rbjmartin Wrote:You're right.  Murder does require specific intent, which the Israelis have.  You can't tell me that the Israelis didn't mean to shoot on that UN humanitarian supply truck.
You are right. I cannot say what their intent was; neither can you.

Quote: Of course, they're trying to blame Hamas, but anyone in their right mind can see that Hamas has no motive to stop UN trucks from bringing food and medicine to their own people.
One way to not get any replies in what could be informative thread, is to claim people who don't agree with you are insane.

Quote:In the eyes of the Israelis, you're probably right.  It isn't murder to them, because they see murder as killing other Jews.  If it's a goy, it's no different than slaughtering animals.  The Israelis are very open about this racist mentality (caution: some strong language).

I do not know of any Jewish teaching which says that.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)