Imperial Cathedral of St. Bartholomew
#11
CollegeCatholic Wrote:Seriously, someone answer this for me.

What's the fascination and worship of the Holy Roman Empire?
What worship? There is no worship here. The office of the Holy Roman Emperor remains vacant. There is nothing too worship. And the office has been vacant since 1805 and even as an idea the office was laid to rest on the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month of 1918 by the Armistice.
In Pope Benedict’s eleventh hour who will come to his aid? The United Nations? The American President Obama?
This is the purpose for the Holy Right Arm of the Church-to protect the Mystical Body of Christ from the attacks of Her enemies. Now you can witness first hand these attacks against the office of the Roman Pontiff from those with in and those enemies without. No Holy Right Arm of the Church to defend the Holy Roman Pontiff. from possible harm.
This is a plan of action not a form of worship.
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#12
I've read alot of your posts, Mr. Warning, and might I suggest that you place too much emphasis on this?  Nowhere in either Scripture or Tradition is there anything about the Church requiring the Holy Roman Empire to fulfill its mission.  Furthermore, nothing requires that a country belong to the Empire in order for its political constitution to be valid.  Just a thought . . .

That being said, I'm all in favor of restoring the Holy Roman Empire.  I think it would be great.  As far as we can say anything about the future, we can say that the restoration of the empire will not happen anytime in the near future.  Even if the electors met and appointed someone, what difference would it make?  Germany, Austria, and all the other former countries of the Empire already have legal governments.  They'd have to agree to be subsumed within the Empire.  Your theory works -- in theory, and not in practice, I fear.  Would that. 

There are so many more important issues than this. 
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#13
If this every happens in my lifetime...Smile
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#14
Bonifacius Wrote:I've read alot of your posts, Mr. Warning, and might I suggest that you place too much emphasis on this?  Nowhere in either Scripture or Tradition is there anything about the Church requiring the Holy Roman Empire to fulfill its mission. 

But it is found in Divine Scripture and Catholic Tradition. According to the Church Fathers the manifestation of the antichrist will be hindered by the continuance of the Roman Empire (Pagan, during the lifetime of the Church Fathers, now Roman Catholic) This is found in St Paul's second letter to the Thessalonians:
 
Let no man deceive you by any means, for unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself as if he were God. Remember you not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now you know what withholdeth, that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity already worketh; only that he who now holdeth, do hold, until he be taken out of the way. And then that wicked one shall be revealed whom the Lord Jesus shall kill with the spirit of his mouth; and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming, him, Whose coming is according to the working of Satan, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders, And in all seduction of iniquity to them that perish; because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying:

Things necessary for the manifestation of the antichrist

1. for unless there come a revolt first...
(A world wide revolt against the Divine authority of the Holy Roman Emperor. This would be the last or final revolt according to St Robert Bellarmine.)

2.only that he who now holdeth, do hold, until he be taken out of the way.
(The removal of the Office holder by mystical members of the antichrist.)

3.And then that wicked one shall be revealed
(The usurpation of this Office by the antichrist.)

The Roman Empire also has another privilege, as some assert: they do not think that antichrist will come while it remains in existence. Thus they interpret these words of St Paul, doctor of the Gentiles, that he who now holdeth, do hold, until he be taken out of the way. And then the wicked one shall be revealed whom the Lord shall kill with the spirit of His mouth 2 Thessalonians 2:7-8. It is evident that the divine Augustine followed this opinion De civitate Dei bk 20, c. 9. Aeneas Silvius Piccolomini Pope Pius II
Tertullian in Apologetico Chp 32 "saith, that Christians doe praie for the continuance of the Roman Empire because they know, that when that Empire is overthrowne, there shall a great calamity fall upon the world."
St. Ambrose upon 2 Thess. 2 saith, "that after the defection and abolition of the Roman Kingdome, antichrist shall come.

This is antichrist 101. Because of the Vacancy of this Divine Office, the  world will most likely witness the forrunner to the antichrist as Our Lady foretold at La Salette:
 
"A forerunner of the Antichrist, with his troops gathered from several nations, will fight against the true Christ, the only Saviour of the world. He will shed much blood and will want to annihilate the worship of God to make himself be looked upon as a God."

What Napoleon accomplished with the Treaty of Pressburg, (annihilated the Office of the Holy Roman Emperor) still has yet to bear the final bad fruit, which of course is the manifestation of the forerunner to the antichrist. This forerunner to the antichrist will commit this act against the Holy Father as foretold to us by Our Lady at Fatima:

"a Bishop dressed in White ‘we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God."

The "group of soldiers" are the very same as those mentioned at La Salette "troops gathered from several nations". These men at the behest of the forerunner to the antichrist will be the ones to kill the Pope, Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. The various lay people of different ranks and positions tell us that it is a possiblity that this procession is the result of the Imperial Election and crowning of the Emperor by the Pope.
 
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#15
The Apostle too, says, at II Thessalonians 2:3 of the advent of antichrist, says, Unless there come a revolt first, and the man of sin be revealed, concerning which revolt it is said in the Gloss (Ordinary gloss to II Thessalonians 2:3) at the same place that ‘a triple revolt will precede the advent of antichrist, that is, first, the revolt of the kingdoms from the Roman Empire, second, of the churches from obedience to the apostolic see, third, however, the revolt of the faithful from the faith,’ because, while the head of the Church in spiritual matters, that is, the apostolic see, and the head in temporal matters, that is the Roman Empire, last, and the faithful still adhere to the faith, division and the dominion of Antichrist will have no place and advantage while those heads and their members resist him. When, however, the body of the Church will be made headless and, consequently, the individual members are without motion and sense as far as truth, unity and firmness of faith, then antichrist and his malice will have a place and effect, as the Gloss says on that text of the prophet, ‘It will decline and fall when the lordship will belong to the poor,’ that is, the members of the Church then who are infirm and belonging to desolation, because’ they are led into error, even the elect, if it can be done’. And it says, ‘if it can be done,’ with the contrary sense, because it cannot be done entirely, since the Church and the faith can be imperilled, but never submerged, according to Luke 22:32, I have prayed for thee, Peter, that thy faith fail not.
Engelbert of Admont On the Rise and End of the Roman Empire
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