Why the pro-life movement has failed
#31
Anastasia Wrote:No, it doesn't have anything to do with the jews; some support it , some don't.

This misses the point. The reason why we have legalized abortion in America has EVERYTHING to do with Jews. The leaders of the movement were Jewish. Yes, there may be philosophical reasons going back hundreds of years which led to the triumph of individualism. That's an interesting and profitable discussion to have. But when you discuss the fact that abortion in America used to be illegal, but since 1973 it has been legalized to the detriment of over 1 million children killed every year, then that is almost entirely attributable to the political machinations of Jews.

See, for example, Betty Friedan, nee Betty Naomi Goldstein:
(I apologize for the immodesty she displays, but this photo captures the essence of her shamelessness developing into truly Satanic violent evil.)

[Image: 021306_article_kolhat.jpg]

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#32
No, the leaders of the movement in America were apostate Christians, such as Margaret Sanger. Legalized killing of children has been around before the Jews left the holy land, and the culture of death mentality behind abortion has existed since sacrifices to Moloch. That is what is behind abortion being legalized, not some mythical Jewish conspiracy.
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#33
And Margaret Sanger, foundress of PP, whose mother was Catholic, had nothing to do with the eventual aceptance of abortion. Nor did Linda Coffee and Amy Wellington, the attorneys who brought Roe v Wade to the SC. While two of the three founders of NARAL were Jewish, the founders of its precursor ARAL were Pat Maginnis, Rowena Gurner, and Lana Phelan. I would doubt that Pat Maginnis is a really Jewish name.

Harry Blackmun, William J. Brennan, Chief Justice Warren Burger, William O. Douglas, Thurgood Marshall, Lewis Powell and Potter Stewart all voted for the "right" to an abortion.

It is true that Jews have a cultural history of educating their children and as a result there were many Jews who were doctors and lawyers and rich as well. And it is true that many Jews, having suffered from persecution themselves, tended to be very broadminded in their politics.

However, it is also true that the philosophers who offered up the enlightenment principles upon which many evils of today are based, including the evil of abortion, were almost all "Christian," or at least not Jewish.

There are 14,000,000 Jews in the world. There are 6,000,000,000 people in the world. Give me a freaking break and get over your stupid conspiracy theory mindset. As long as you are looking at a non-existent problem, you will come up with the wrong solutions, and guess what? That's exactly what the real enemy wants you to do.
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#34
Quote:It is true that Jews have a cultural history of educating their children and as a result there were many Jews who were doctors and lawyers and rich as well. And it is true that many Jews, having suffered from persecution themselves, tended to be very broadminded in their politics.

It is also true that they have a tradition of hating Christianity. Interesting you call it "broad-minded," the fact so many of them are so pro-abortion. The GSS data says Jews are more pro-abortion than those who are classed as "extreme liberals."

Quote:However, it is also true that the philosophers who offered up the enlightenment principles upon which many evils of today are based, including the evil of abortion, were almost all "Christian," or at least not Jewish.

That's not really true. You don't really grasp what happened then, just as you ignore the overwhelming evidence today as to the Jewish manipulation of things. I would check out Richard H. Popkin's works - it shows a lot of Jewish influence at work in those earlier times.

Quote:There are 14,000,000 Jews in the world. There are 6,000,000,000 people in the world. Give me a freaking break and get over your stupid conspiracy theory mindset. As long as you are looking at a non-existent problem, you will come up with the wrong solutions, and guess what? That's exactly what the real enemy wants you to do.

That's really an absurd argument on so many levels. As though the fact there are maybe 14 million Jews means they cannot have an immense amount of power. As for saying the problem is "non-existent" - that is simply an incredible, unbelievable statement. The real enemy wants people to deny even the things that are right in front of us and never, ever talk about where the real problem lies. That's the current situation in the Western world. Everyone is afraid to talk about the Jews and what they're doing. Well, Christ and the Apostles weren't afraid.
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#35
Telemaque Wrote:
Quote:It is true that Jews have a cultural history of educating their children and as a result there were many Jews who were doctors and lawyers and rich as well. And it is true that many Jews, having suffered from persecution themselves, tended to be very broadminded in their politics.

It is also true that they have a tradition of hating Christianity. Interesting you call it "broad-minded," the fact so many of them are so pro-abortion. The GSS data says Jews are more pro-abortion than those who are classed as "extreme liberals."
I wasn't referring to their stance on abortion with that remark--I was referring to their more general support of "liberal" causes, a support which is shared by many who call themselves Catholic (to the extent that over half of those who call themselves Catholic voted for the incredibly pro-abortion Obama, on the grounds that his "liberal" policies would reduce abortion).

Quote:
Quote:However, it is also true that the philosophers who offered up the enlightenment principles upon which many evils of today are based, including the evil of abortion, were almost all "Christian," or at least not Jewish.

That's not really true. You don't really grasp what happened then, just as you ignore the overwhelming evidence today as to the Jewish manipulation of things. I would check out Richard H. Popkin's works - it shows a lot of Jewish influence at work in those earlier times.
Thaks for at least directing me somwhere instead of totally freaking out the way some people here do.

I have no idea where to find the overwhelming evidence you speak of, but from a quick glance at Amazon, Popkins' books look interesting and reasonable.

Quote:
Quote:There are 14,000,000 Jews in the world. There are 6,000,000,000 people in the world. Give me a freaking break and get over your stupid conspiracy theory mindset. As long as you are looking at a non-existent problem, you will come up with the wrong solutions, and guess what? That's exactly what the real enemy wants you to do.

That's really an absurd argument on so many levels. As though the fact there are maybe 14 million Jews means they cannot have an immense amount of power. As for saying the problem is "non-existent" - that is simply an incredible, unbelievable statement. The real enemy wants people to deny even the things that are right in front of us and never, ever talk about where the real problem lies. That's the current situation in the Western world. Everyone is afraid to talk about the Jews and what they're doing. Well, Christ and the Apostles weren't afraid.
Yeah, well, I have heard a lot about the so-called conspiracies and have never ever been given even a hint of evidence. You have told me about one author.

While I do understand your comment that just because they constitute a small number doesn't mean that they can't weild a lot of power, that doesn't mean they do. You say there is overwhelming evidence--where? The fact that some secularized Jews were involved in the legalization of abortion certainly doesn't mean that all Jews are out to take over the world.

Personally, what I see in the world is that extremely rich industrialists are out to get us all, and that some of them are of Jewish descent, but many many more are not. and I would say that the industrialists are a lot more of a danger in every way.
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#36
Quote:I wasn't referring to their stance on abortion with that remark--I was referring to their more general support of "liberal" causes, a support which is shared by many who call themselves Catholic (to the extent that over half of those who call themselves Catholic voted for the incredibly pro-abortion Obama, on the grounds that his "liberal" policies would reduce abortion).

No, I think you were suggesting more than that, and in doing so confusing cause and effect. The Jews are liberal in large part because they sympathize in varying degrees with the cause of liberalism - which is the destruction of Christian civilization. As for so-called "Catholics" who vote as though abortion doesn't matter or who are pro-choice, I despise their attitudes and certainly think most of them have fallen away or are terribly mistaken. Just as I despise the attitudes of the Jews, who so often hate my religion and support abortion in the way I've described previously in the thread.

Quote:Thaks for at least directing me somwhere instead of totally freaking out the way some people here do.

I have no idea where to find the overwhelming evidence you speak of, but from a quick glance at Amazon, Popkins' books look interesting and reasonable.

Well, it's an obscure part of history. Most people just have a skeleton view of historical events. Popkin isn't Catholic. An interesting book of his is Secret Conversions to Judaism in Early Modern Europe. There are Catholic books that also talk about the Jewish influence, but those authors are usually dismissed as antisemites.

Quote:While I do understand your comment that just because they constitute a small number doesn't mean that they can't weild a lot of power, that doesn't mean they do. You say there is overwhelming evidence--where? The fact that some secularized Jews were involved in the legalization of abortion certainly doesn't mean that all Jews are out to take over the world.

No, it doesn't mean "all of them" are out to take over the world. But I don't derive my views on Jewish political power and ambitions just on the incredible amount of support for abortion. Far from it.

Quote:Personally, what I see in the world is that extremely rich industrialists are out to get us all, and that some of them are of Jewish descent, but many many more are not. and I would say that the industrialists are a lot more of a danger in every way.

Well, it's undoubtedly very complicated, but you have to look at the domination of the media and the taboos surrounding Jewish power. Where there's smoke there's fire. The Jews haven't been driven from place to place for nothing. Their is mutual antagonism between Jews and gentiles, not just gentile paranoia and persecution.

Werner Sombart's book on the Jews and Modern Capitalism might give some hints as to the significance of Jewish finance.
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#37
What's the deal with Germans?

Well, my amnesiac brother-in-Christ, speaking for "Germans," did you ever hear of that minor episode named "World Wars One and Two"? The REASON Germany is so horribly oppressed today is because from 1937 the Yankees (might that be you?) led by FDR chose without any moral justification to butcher in cold blood over 20,000,000 innocent German Catholics and Protestants, bombed Christian Europe into ruins, then raped the women and imposed extremely unjust laws making almost anything a thought crime and are still currently maintaining an oppressive colonial regime in power through the brutal occupation of Germany by the (your?) Yankee military. Then your Yankee Cardinal Spellman of New York arranged the murder of Saint Pope Pius XII and your Yankee Cardinal Cushing of Boston financed the subversion of Vatican II.
If the (you?) Yankee military occupiers would get their (your?) heathen asses out of Christian Europe ASAP, then the Christian natives of Europe would be able to begin to enjoy some Christian Liberty for a change.
Might your false sanctimony have some limit? If you're offended by a blunt reply, then it were wise not to utter such a gross insult against innocent German victims of your own incomparably brutal vicious anti-Catholic Yankee nation. Any Catholic Southrons out there? Someone should defend the innocent.

Today at 01:29 PM #9
No one attacked Germans, his sig line says: what's the deal? But now you've attacked all Americans for being so horrible, here's something to consider: Hitler killing Catholics and Jews alike, or the US occupying Germany, which would you choose? I'll give you a hint, with one of them you get to practice your faith without going to a concentration camp. I don't think the US should've bombed Germany, but the Nazi weren't exactly much better. And considering the modernist, anti-catholic, contraceptive mentality in Europe nowadays, getting all the Yanks out wouldn't make everything just perfect again.
And where on earth did you get the idea Cardinal Spellman had the Pope killed?

Anastasia,

Your kind words "I don't think the US should've bombed Germany" are much appreciated. No doubt I attack too carelessly; otherwise I’d probably never get my convoluted German thoughts over the computer screen. Mea culpa!
My thinking is that for Americans to grapple with huge problems like abortion, we (I am German-American or American German on this side of the Pond) need to be aware of the tragic basics of our American history, i.e., the Civil War and FDR's dictatorship. I also thought it more helpful to express what more traditional Germans like me really think in my reaction to the gibe about why Germans are behaving so weirdly these days. I can’t pretend it ain’t so. Yes, it did hit a nerve, as it should!
I used the word "Yankee," not "American." (As for baseball, what can I say?) Remembering the Civil War, as Americans we need to be aware of the Southern and Western regions of our country. To condemn Federal unAmerica (the Yankee nation) is anything but an attack against all Americans! It is precisely the Yankee unAmericans who wallow in pagan President-worship and abortion, not to mention who politically interfere like crazy against Christian Europe.
The main instrument of this fatal political interference is the American military in Europe. Europe would be incredibly better off if only the Yankee military would just leave! It would
also do wonders to help the American South reorient away from bogus foreign Crusades back to its Catholic and Protestant roots.
As for Germans killing Catholics and Jews in WW2, no, like Bishop Williamson, I wouldn’t dream of denying the Holocaust. But what was that? It was nothing other than WW2 itself. And the Holocaust/WW2 in Europe was essentially a war between Catholics with their Protestant allies against Marxism with their Zionist allies. Most of the racial Jews had been Catholics for centuries; their many waves of conversion were the inspiration for practically every major new advance in our Western civilization. At least a third of the Europeans have Jewish ancestors. There were many wicked Marxists inside the Nazi Party and many patriotic Russians inside the Soviet Communist Party, but also many pious Catholics in the former and sadistic Reds in the latter. That is a good indication of why the Church was so agonizingly neutral throughout the horrible bloodletting.
However it is a striking historical fact that the Catholic Church flourished greatly during the German occupation but has suffered catastrophically during the subsequent Yankee occupation! The German government was quite generous to the Church both financially and politically. One might note that at present Obama, Brown and their cohorts on the continent are orchestrating a persecution of the Holy Father of which the late Adolph could never have even dreamt of matching.
Actually if the Yankee troops left, then the beneficent influence of the new Russian Patriarch would inundate Europe. Things on earth will always be far from perfect (thank God!!), but the moral improvement in Europe and America would be stunning.
As for my nastyness about the Yankee nation, I didn’t intend it for the ladies. I was thinking in particular about how singularly cruel the Yankee approach to abortion has been, but the behavior of the Yankees in 1944 wasn’t any better than in 1864. If I indulged in a meaningless pretence of one nation being better than another, I shouldn’t have! There is always plenty more room at the moral bottom for everyone.
My surprise was your mentioning “getting to practice your faith without going to a concentration camp.” Generally the Novus Ordo is clever enough to stick in enough routine blasphemies in every Mass to prevent any Catholic from practicing our faith (without penalty of mortal sin) with or without FEMA concentration camps! I think your sense of religious liberty in America today is quite a utopian fantasy. Do the governments and their media always tell the truth? Are we free because the government tells us so? But the governments don’t control the media or the clergy? I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you!
As for my accustion against Cardinal Spellman, I did get it from an impeccable source so now I’ll have to dig it up again. But a blog isn’t a respectable book; I don’t have my footnotes.
Thanks for your reasonable response. I think we communicated what many Catholics on opposite sides of the current divide actually are thinking.

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#38
Telemaque Wrote:Werner Sombart's book on the Jews and Modern Capitalism might give some hints as to the significance of Jewish finance.
I have looked into the allegations of some Jewish conspiracy in the financial field, and from the information I have been able to find have concluded that that aspect at least is absurd. Yes, it is true that Jews were financiers, and that as financiers they did certain things. However, it is also true that at the same time there were other financiers who were not Jewish who did the exact same things. Guess what? The fact that Jewish financiers were doing bad things does not provide evidence of a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world. Proximity does not equal causation. I have discussed what the financiers did with an actual financier, and that was normal behavior, it is what financiers do. And this is why I do not belive in the Jewish conspiracy theories.

Quote:Well, it's undoubtedly very complicated, but you have to look at the domination of the media and the taboos surrounding Jewish power. Where there's smoke there's fire. The Jews haven't been driven from place to place for nothing. Their is mutual antagonism between Jews and gentiles, not just gentile paranoia and persecution.
There has been mutual antagonism between the Jews and Christians; however, that is still not evidence of the type of conspiracy which so many on this board allege. Is there a conspiracy among Catholics to get rid of Jews? And yet there is a great deal more evidence of Catholics trying to get rid of them than there is the other way around.

What I object to is the comments about Jews due to the involvement of some Jews in some activities which were also engaged in by non-Jews. That's what I object to. If there is a plot, then it is not a Jewish plot, nor are all or even most Jews involved in it.

On this board it seems like all too often a topic comes up and the next thing a person knows is that it comes up as a Jewish plot.

The second post on this thread read as follows:
Quote:E. Michael Jones book has an interesting take on who is responsible.

If people could have named those who are the strongest partisans of abortion it might have made a difference.
Wow, that didn't take you long, did it?

So are we supposed to think that the Jews are behind abortion, and that if everyone knew the Jews were behind abortion, then everyone would say, Oh, right, if the Jews are for it, then it must be wrong? Or what? I mean, what on earth were you saying with that?

The article was good: it showed that the problem is that there are roots to the pro-abortion way of thinking which are not being addressed by the opponents of legalized abortion. However, focusing on the Jews as the source of the problem is 1. absurd, and 2. distracting.

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#39
brotherjuniper- you are surely not serious when you claim that the Nazi were the Catholic party in WWII? Really, the Pope condemned it (contrary to popular belief), many Catholic priests, nuns, and devout laity were sent to concentration camps where many died, and churches were shut and forbidden to preach against the Nazi Party. How exactly is that Catholic? Even leaving aside of the quesstion of murdering the Jews, do you at least concede that killing all those priests was murder? Pagan president worship-even see the Leni Riefenstahl movies, they could give America a few lessons in that. And while we're on the abortion topic, the Party 's support for abortion where the child was not suffienciently Aryan? Talk to some people who lived through both occupations, it's clear which one was preferable.
 Germany's problems went a lot further back than Yankee occupation; Christianity in Europe had already been torn apart by the French Revolution, the revolutions in 1848, Bismarks rise to power and the emergence of nationalism (as opposed to a Catholic patriotism). Germany, in particular, can never be said to have really recovered from the thirty year's war. Those are the causes that led to WWI, and then to WWII, long before Americans ever bothered Europe. With so much good that came from Germany over the centuries, why would you want to tie your identity to an atheist, anti-catholic nutcase?
And yes, unless you've been completely out of things in the US, even the most traditional of catholics out there get to practice their faith without getting sent to concentration camp! It's too ridiculous, I wonder you can even type it with a straight face.
Gotten a long way from abortion, haven't we?
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#40
newtolatin Wrote:I have looked into the allegations of some Jewish conspiracy in the financial field, and from the information I have been able to find have concluded that that aspect at least is absurd. Yes, it is true that Jews were financiers, and that as financiers they did certain things.

What did they do?

Quote:However, it is also true that at the same time there were other financiers who were not Jewish who did the exact same things. Guess what? The fact that Jewish financiers were doing bad things does not provide evidence of a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world.

It provides evidence of their power.

Here's a tiny sample of evidence of Jewish ambitions:

Ben Gurion Predicts a "Supreme Court of Mankind in Jerusalem"

http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/bengur62.jpg

(I've looked at the page in the Jan 16, 1962 edition of LOOK at the library)

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.ht...8389639EDE

"The League of Nations is a Jewish Idea, And Jerusalem will become the Capital of the World's Peace"

Quote:Proximity does not equal causation. I have discussed what the financiers did with an actual financier, and that was normal behavior, it is what financiers do. And this is why I do not belive in the Jewish conspiracy theories.

Well, I'm glad you've "discussed what they do" - I doubt that gives you an understanding of what's really going on. I don't claim to know what's going on - but I know that Werner Sombart said the Jews became the leading financial power in England in 1720. I know the words Disraeli puts into the mouth of his Rothschild character. I know that Quigley names the Rothschilds and Ernest Cassel as being major promoters of the Triple Entente.

Quote:There has been mutual antagonism between the Jews and Christians; however, that is still not evidence of the type of conspiracy which so many on this board allege. Is there a conspiracy among Catholics to get rid of Jews? And yet there is a great deal more evidence of Catholics trying to get rid of them than there is the other way around.

Catholics want to convert the Jews. Jews want to destroy Catholicism. That's the reality, you can face the reality, or stick your head in the sand. When the Pope faces global criticism over a prayer for the conversion of the Jews, it ought to tell you something.

Quote:What I object to is the comments about Jews due to the involvement of some Jews in some activities which were also engaged in by non-Jews. That's what I object to. If there is a plot, then it is not a Jewish plot, nor are all or even most Jews involved in it.

I guess then you object to the New Testament, because it mentions "fear of the Jews" without saying which Jews, or without stipulating that it wasn't "all Jews." The Jews have organizations which pursue anti-Christian ends. The Jews dominate many anti-Christian organizations. They do it in large part because they are Jews and hate Christianity.

Quote:On this board it seems like all too often a topic comes up and the next thing a person knows is that it comes up as a Jewish plot.

The Jews are involved in a lot of things.

Quote:So are we supposed to think that the Jews are behind abortion, and that if everyone knew the Jews were behind abortion, then everyone would say, Oh, right, if the Jews are for it, then it must be wrong? Or what? I mean, what on earth were you saying with that?

Well, the ordinary people are suspicious of the agendas of groups they do not belong to. If someone really understands the ulterior motives behind abortion advocates ((e.g. Frank Schumer is a ferocious supporter of abortion in the US but supports an Israeli organization that tries to convince women not to have them) then they might start to see that the people promoting abortion are not the "broad-minded" people, but the anti-Christian people. But that is not even my point. My point is this: if the Jews promote abortion and if they were held accountable as Jews for doing that, then they would realize there is a severe price their community will have to pay in terms of its reputation for doing what they are doing. That is only fair.

Quote:The article was good: it showed that the problem is that there are roots to the pro-abortion way of thinking which are not being addressed by the opponents of legalized abortion. However, focusing on the Jews as the source of the problem is 1. absurd, and 2. distracting.

ABSURD? No, it's ABSURD to say the Jews are not one of the main forces behind legal abortion in this country. That's the reality - it needs to be admitted and exposed.
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