Men's Dress Worn By Women
#11
Cantus Wrote:I have no doubt in my mind that the good cardinals words applied to the ladies and  fashions of the time and the cultural aspects of when this was made.  Again, how is this a logical refutation of the acceptable norms of modesty for the time, place, and culture that we live in?

It's not like the "fashions of the time" against which the good cardinal speaks refer to some period lost in time, unrelated to us culturally and religiously, some 4000 years ago! On the contrary, it's a stern warning to all catholics about the perverted fashion that was being introduced 40 years ago in our western societies and whose triumph we are still witnessing today.

But since none of you even took the time to read the good cardinal's words, pridefully dismissing them as not applicable to you, then I rest my case.

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." (Mat 11:15)
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#12
Someone last year brought up Pope Nicholas' words on the subject. I find those particularly interesting.
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#13
Bonifacio Wrote:
Cantus Wrote:I have no doubt in my mind that the good cardinals words applied to the ladies and  fashions of the time and the cultural aspects of when this was made.  Again, how is this a logical refutation of the acceptable norms of modesty for the time, place, and culture that we live in?

It's not like the "fashions of the time" against which the good cardinal speaks refer to some period lost in time, unrelated to us culturally and religiously, some 4000 years ago! On the contrary, it's a stern warning to all catholics about the perverted fashion that was being introduced 40 years ago in our western societies and whose triumph we are still witnessing today.

But since none of you even took the time to read the good cardinal's words, pridefully dismissing them as not applicable to you, then I rest my case.

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." (Mat 11:15)

If the words of the good cardinal were meant for all time the Pope himself would of course define it as such in accordance with all the other dogmas of the church.  It is quite obvious that his letter was addressed to a specific people and specific problems.  Feminism, like liberalism is a disease that progresses and changes to try and obfuscate what is truly important in Catholic life.  Again, how does this address the arguement that believes that all women at all times must wear a dress or they are feminist.  The concern I have with that sentiment is not that we are fighting feminism (which is an error that is uniquely defined by the confines of each individual feminists mind) but the fact that a piece of clothing is the bar by which we judge a womans (or mans) faith.  I would hope that charity and all good acts required by the church to sanctify our souls would be that measure.  The clothing we wear, so long as they are modest pants or modest dress should never be the rule of thumb (no stick thicker than your own thumb when preparing to beat your wife)
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#14
Cantus Wrote:I have no doubt in my mind that the good cardinals words applied to the ladies and  fashions of the time and the cultural aspects of when this was made.  Again, how is this a logical refutation of the acceptable norms of modesty for the time, place, and culture that we live in?


It seems then that you are advocating relativism. That Catholic morals are not objective and eternal.

I fail to see how modesty and purity change over time no matter the culture or century.

The bodies of the sexes have not changed in over 6,000 years. The ontological differences in the sexes have not changes since Adam and Eve.  

Pants have a certain nature because every single thing has an objective nature. The nature of pants itself is one of the male sex. By its very nature, it is intended for the male body.   
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#15
Before I lock this thread, I'd like to be fair and find out the reason for it.

What is the point of it?  Was there another thread where Cdl. Siri's letter came up?  Is this something for "people to reflect on"?  Was there a slowdown in Vatican News and it's filler?

Here's why I'm tempted to lock it.

1) Most people here have read that letter at least 20 times.  The people who agree continue to agree, and the people who disagree continue to disagree.
2) The skirts vs. pants debate is just a source of dischord
3) There are no dogmatic statements on clothing so at the end of the day one is bound by their pastor.
4) If it refers to another thread, it should go in that thread and a new thread doesn't need to be started.
5) If we want to post "reflections of the day" on any regular basis, it should go on a blog as I suggested to Catholicmilkman (who, to his credit and with my thanks, listened to my suggestion) and as Luigi does.

I have to admit I'm not sure of the reason, so I'm asking...
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#16
SaintRafael Wrote:It seems then that you are advocating relativism. That Catholic morals are not objective and eternal.

.... 

Pants have a certain nature because every single thing has an objective nature. The nature of pants itself is one of the male sex. By its very nature, it is intended for the male body.   

Whatever good points can be made regarding men= pants/ women= dresses, this is pushing it too far. Did Jesus wear pants? The Prophets? The Apostles?

Infidelity and polytheism is on the rise, charity to the poor goes neglected, abortion is through the roof, and families are breaking up left and right, and we're talking about pants on women. With all this belly gazing, no wonder the Gospel has reached a paltry number of men the world over!
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#17
Bonifacio Wrote:Did any of you even read H.E. Cardinal Siri's wise words on the subject, gently posted by Stevus?


Read it before, many many times!
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#18
Bonifacio Wrote:Did any of you even read H.E. Cardinal Siri's wise words on the subject, gently posted by Stevus?

I read it like every 2 months when he re-posts it in a new thread.  It's Stevus' gift that never stops giving.
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#19
Bonifacio Wrote:Did any of you even read H.E. Cardinal Siri's wise words on the subject, gently posted by Stevus?
The question I always have is why did Cardinal Siri choose the length he did for skirts? For centuries, women wore their skirts to the ground. The Blessed Virgin wore her skirts to the ground. Why then did the Cardinal say it was all right to wear skirts half-way up our shins?
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#20
SaintRafael Wrote:  

Pants have a certain nature because every single thing has an objective nature. The nature of pants itself is one of the male sex. By its very nature, it is intended for the male body.   

Pants are manmade objects. They do not have a nature.
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