Four SSPX Bishops send joint letter to the Pope
#11
StevusMagnus Wrote:Credo,

I understand your fears. That is always a possibility. However, I think the Vatican and Fellay need to play this carefully until this nonsense dies down. Then once they are regularized the Vatican will publicly back them up and the Society will start to implement a game-plan to begin the restoration, hopefully with doctrinal clarification and back up from Rome at that point. They will be able to work unimpeded by local Modernist Bishops and basically run their own show. Barring them speaking on non-faith issues, I see them as having a lot of freedom.

The liberals won the battle but not the war. If the Society gets recognized with no concessions, libs lose and they know it. That's why they are raising Hell. Once the Society is in they can't play the suspended or excommunicated cards and they have to defend their novelties. These chumps can't hold a candle to the Society on the level of theological argument. All they can do is try to obfuscate and manipulate the media. It's going to be a civil war. The Society can not afford to back down when inside. They'll have their own Bishop under the Pope and thus will have more latitude to speak out than the FSSP and ICK. They'll be a force.

True story.
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#12
Scipio_a Wrote:I have to say I share Credo's fears on this and that I am a bit wary of the whole thing but I also share StevusMagnus' hopes.  We shall see.   The four bishops, and Fellay in particular, know that if they "sellout" to Rome, as the crank at tradito.com has been trumpeting for years now, they will lose lots of priests and most of the faithful.  We have not distanced ourselves from the rot of the new order just to say "oh, we can be part of the springtime too? Yippy! Michael row the boat ashore, allelujah "

True, I hear you. But the key is to see if Fellay comes out of the doctrinal talks making no concessions. If so, mission accomplished. Plus the goal is to force Rome to clarify officially the ambiguous time bombs liberals have been using to further their agendas. If Fellay gets clarification and makes no concessions and the Society gets a Rolls Royce structure protected from the local NO Bishops, they are in as strong of a position as they could have hoped for and they can fight from a position of strength.

Also who are the Pope's friends in the Vatican? Unless he has some pet cats, he has about zero. Maybe a few conservative Cardinals and Bishops, that's it. He's surrounded by wolves who just sold him out through this affair and I don't think he'll forget that. Fellay stated in a previous talk that a Cardinal in Rome told him "The Pope and I are on your side". The Pope wants the Society in there to have his back and support him. They are not 100% lined up in theology, but the Pope is much more aligned to the Society than the libs. The Pope knows where his friends are. He is trying to circle the wagons.
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#13
StevusMagnus Wrote:Also who are the Pope's friends in the Vatican? Unless he has some pet cats

Interesting you mention that,

[Image: isbn158617252.jpg]
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#14
StevusMagnus Wrote:
Scipio_a Wrote:"

True, I hear you. But the key is to see if Fellay comes out of the doctrinal talks making no concessions. If so, mission accomplished. Plus the goal is to force Rome to clarify officially the ambiguous time bombs liberals have been using to further their agendas. If Fellay gets clarification and makes no concessions and the Society gets a Rolls Royce structure protected from the local NO Bishops, they are in as strong of a position as they could have hoped for and they can fight from a position of strength.

Also who are the Pope's friends in the Vatican? Unless he has some pet cats, he has about zero. Maybe a few conservative Cardinals and Bishops, that's it. He's surrounded by wolves who just sold him out through this affair and I don't think he'll forget that. Fellay stated in a previous talk that a Cardinal in Rome told him "The Pope and I are on your side". The Pope wants the Society in there to have his back and support him. They are not 100% lined up in theology, but the Pope is much more aligned to the Society than the libs. The Pope knows where his friends are. He is trying to circle the wagons.

First paragraph all true

Second paragraph, informed conjecture, dependent on the Pope's attitude to this.  I'm not so sure about "but the Pope is much more aligned to the Society than the libs" because the way I view the world is that conservatives and liberals have more in common with each other than they do with us.  I think it was GKC who said something of the sort, its not my original idea (something to do with cultural assumptions of any given era).  However, incesant arguing with my dad about this topic, and his intractability, no matter how much evidence is brought to bear for the Archbishop's possition, make it clear to me that GKC was on to something.  My dad is as conservative NO as you get but he can't make the leap to Tradition even though he claims to prefer the TLM and it is only 15 minutes away from his house.  What I wouldn't give for that!

Don't let me sap your optimism, I love it!  If you are right my dad will have to capitulate and convert back to the faith of his childhood.
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#15
Things seem to be coming to a head on just about all fronts these days.  One measly cranky Bishop can set all these carts rolling down hill.  Kind of obvious to me that things have been heading here for a while, now it's put up or shut up on the part of Catholics.  I noticed in another thread that even protestants are making demands of the Pope.  The plus out of all of this is that some definitions and clarifications will have to be just that .  No longer will people be able have their head in the sand  and behave like disciples of Rodney King's great proverb, "can't we just all get along"   No, we can't.  Now we see what we've known all along, Jews do not like Catholicism one iota and they expect us to deny the truth to accomodate them, no matter how insignificant. Protestants will accept our teachings as long as we hide the one's they don't like under a table cloth.  When it gets down to brass tacks, the real Catholics in the hierarchy will have to stand up and be counted.  Those that parse their words will lose the traditionalists, those that stand up for the faith will lose the liberals, maybe all 999 million of them.  Good riddance I say.  This whole mess could be "nodal point" that Hegel always talked about.  We live in interesting times my friends.

p.s.  Notice it didn't take 2 weeks and Obama is already ruining america? 

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#16
I wonder what the letter says? We'll probably know soon enough! It all seems very exciting :)
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#17
Are they removing H.E. Bishop Williamson from La Reja?

That's sad.

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#18
newschoolman Wrote:I hope and pray it happens soon.  We are seeing (true) ecumenism at work.


You think these priests need converted to the Catholic faith?
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#19
Scipio,

I agree that Neo-Caths and liberals are theological cousins and diverge from the same false premise. However, I think the Pope grew into a Traditional/ Conservative hybrid stance. He was basically the most Traditional Cardinal in the curia when JPII died, save maybe Ranjith. He's not perfect and not a full Trad by any means. However, he knows who will have his back and who his enemies are and in that sense he is closer to the Society than the liberals who are seeking his ruin.

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