Thread on Freemasonry
#11
The Bible, or shall I say the misintepritation of the Bible, is responsible for the Protestant Reformation. Should we get rid of that too?

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#12
Telemaque Wrote:What about when high members of the hierarchy are promoting heresy?

The problem exists in the Church because these false ideas of "Vatican II" are not being clearly and unambiguously condemned.

This thread is about Freemasonary. If you wish to debate VII issues within the Catholic Church, you can use the new forum: http://www.websitetoolbox.com/mb/apologia?forum=136311 (read the rules first)

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#13
Freemasonry has infiltrated the Church to some degree. They have been trying to do so for centuries.
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#14
Bonifacio Wrote:Freemasonry has infiltrated the Church to some degree. They have been trying to do so for centuries.

Never the doctrine. The Church has been assaulted by many heresies and many have been infected, but never the Church teachings.
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#15
LaRoza Wrote:
Bonifacio Wrote:Freemasonry has infiltrated the Church to some degree. They have been trying to do so for centuries.

Never the doctrine. The Church has been assaulted by many heresies and many have been infected, but never the Church teachings.

I never said that. Church doctrine is divine and teaches eternal truths for the sake of our salvation.

However, the masons within the Church's structures surely try to tamper with it and teach heresy as IF it were Church doctrine.
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#16
Bonifacio Wrote:
LaRoza Wrote:
Bonifacio Wrote:Freemasonry has infiltrated the Church to some degree. They have been trying to do so for centuries.

Never the doctrine. The Church has been assaulted by many heresies and many have been infected, but never the Church teachings.

I never said that. Church doctrine is divine and teaches eternal truths for the sake of our salvation.

However, the masons within the Church's structures surely try to tamper with it and teach heresy as IF it were Church doctrine.

I was just clarifying. I agree with you (and more than just the Masons, all such anti-Catholic groups)
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#17
Yes, certainly and tragically there are more than just masons within the Church but since they are the most insidious and dangerous lot, we should be mostly aware of them and of their influence.

Furthermore, this thread is about Freemasonry so perhaps we should try to keep our discussions focused on that.

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#18
LaRoza Wrote:
Telemaque Wrote:What about when high members of the hierarchy are promoting heresy?

The problem exists in the Church because these false ideas of "Vatican II" are not being clearly and unambiguously condemned.

This thread is about Freemasonary. If you wish to debate VII issues within the Catholic Church, you can use the new forum: http://www.websitetoolbox.com/mb/apologia?forum=136311 (read the rules first)

Yes indeed. There are many reasons to suggest that the crisis that has occurred since Vatican II is connected to the operations of Freemasonry. I have personally seen evidence of Freemasons attempting to impose themselves on the Church. The case of Joseph Wicker the Rosicrucian and Freemason.

http://books.google.com/books?id=QMWyVp-OAYUC&pg=PA156&lpg=PA156&dq=good+bye+good+men+joseph+wicker&source=web&ots=4NYQlKd0rN&sig=jQ_szvRA9PvC_8vvLJ3Z1se0-cw&hl=en&ei=uTGPSe64N4GCtwf4vpGTCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

In fact many years ago I actually saw a Rosicrucian leaflet dropped in the parking lot of a Dominican Priory which houses first year seminarians.

So there is direct, personal evidence.


Another sign is the way in which anti-Masonry is ridiculed throughout most of the Church today, in magazines such as Crisis. (now defunct)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-reli...6978/posts

And then we see images like this:

Cardinal O'Connor, smiling with members of a condemned, anti-Christian organization as they are wearing their aprons.

[Image: oconner1.JPG]

So it's quite clear that the general attitude of the Church since Vatican II is to largely ignore Freemasonry, even as it openly and publicly threatens the Church in places like Mexico.
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#19
Bonifacio Wrote:Yes, certainly and tragically there are more than just masons within the Church but since they are the most insidious and dangerous lot, we should be mostly aware of them and of their influence.

Furthermore, this thread is about Freemasonry so perhaps we should try to keep our discussions focused on that.

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#20

[Image: pope-benedict.jpg]

Pope Benedict XIV 1740-1758
Pope Benedict XIV, on March 16, 1751 published the Constitution "Providas" in which he inserted in full In Eminenti, the Bull which had been written by his predecessor, Clement XII, in order to make it very evident that the condemnation of Freemasonry was irrevocable and was to be applied to the future as well as to the present.
As a matter of fact, Benedict XIV, had already denounced Masonry as being Counter-Morality in connection with the Order of Felicity of Avignon, a Secret Society of debauchers; among themselves the members of this Society spoke only in a kind of slangy language usually used by sailors. The Pope mentions it twice in his correspondence. I am here transcribing a few lines from his letter of March 25th, 1744, addressed to the Cardinal de Tencin, who was the Pontifical Ambassador at the Court of King Louis XV: "We have received from Avignon the news that in Nimes and also at Montpellier the Freemasons gave a great entertainment in order to gain proselytes. Women and men from the Avignon Society went to it, and, doubtless, upon their return they will organize a Freemasonic Lodge as they once had already attempted to do under the name of Society of Felicity; they might have succeeded had it not been for the zeal of the Archbishop. We wish you to protest, in Our name, to His most Christian Majesty. so that He Will not authorize in His States, the Sect of Freemasons which other Princes have extirpated from their own country." (From the correspondence of Pope Benedict XIV by Gmile de Heckeren. )
Furthermore, in his Constitution, "Providas," Benedict XIV enumerates six reasons which drove Pope Clement XII to strike Secret Societies; they are 1) the Interconfessonalism (or Interfaith) of Freemasons; 2) their secret; 3) their oath; 4) their opposition to Church and State; 5) the interdiction pronounced against them in several States by the Heads of such countries; and, 6) their immorality which the Pope characterizes thus: "Those Societies, according to men who are prudent and honest, are ill-famed, and to become a member thereof, would lead to evil and perversion."
From the outset, before the 18th century, under the efforts of Masonry which sank us into the horrors of the French Revolution, the Sect had been unmasked by the Popes and exposed before the eyes of the Catholics with its odious triple shame of Counter-Morality, Counter-State, and above all, Counter-Church. Let a Freemason, F. Limousin, in his first number of the Masonic Review called "L'ACACIA," of October, 1902, using the pen-name of Hiram, gives the following characteristic definition: "Freemasonry is an association . . . an institution . . . so it is said . . . but it is not that at all. Let us lift up all the veils, risking even to evoke numberless protestations. Freemasonry is a church: It is the Counter-Church, Counter-Catholicism: It is the other church -- the church of heresy, of Freethought; The Catholic Church is considered as the arch-type church, the first church, church of dogmatism and of orthodoxy."


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