In defense of capitalism
#21
HailGilbert Wrote:
Quote:This is simply not true. Read Human Action by Ludwig von Mises and you will see that there are checks in the system. Man existing in isolation would have natural checks, but as it stands, there are other actors in society, and, consequently, many "checks" of varying sorts, not only natural but praxeological as man relates to other men.

In response regarding Von Mises, here is a post by my colleague, John C. Medaille at The Distributist Review. It is called "Can Mises Be Baptized?", posted on November 9th, 2008.

Note: There are 99 responses to his post. So sit and relax when reading it in total. Thank you.

Go to this link to read Mr. Medaille's post:

http://distributism.blogspot.com/2008/11...ed_09.html

That was a very enjoyable read, thank you. I will discuss the article first, and the comments second, because they really are not related after all. I enjoyed this fact, because I found the article rather inconsequential, but the comments very intriguing.

The quotes from Mises from Socialism are either incorrect in their view of Christ, Christianity or its message, and therefore moot regarding the economic question, or they are not relevant to his view of praxeology as outlined in HA. Now the quote from HA I find a bit more interesting and much more relevant, perhaps. First of all, I agree with Mises in this section. It is only by divine love and through perfection that we break from this truth, and I don't think that there is anyone who will argue with me that those who operate outside of the reality posited by Mises are few (maybe someome will). Whether or not they are so few as to not make a difference in the ordering of the world in Mises' view is perhaps debatable, as a little yeast leavens the bread, the salt of the earth, yadda yadda.

That being said, I don't think that Mises' view on Christians or Christianity, whether it be informed or uninformed, right or wrong, reconcilable with Catholic social teaching or not, has any bearing on the validity of his economic theory than Einstein's impersonal deism has on the theory of relativity. He states facts about human action, and whether or not Christians work contrary to this rule, whether Mises views them as detrimental to the economy that he views as most productive, is irrelevent. He doesn't state that in a world where we are motivated by love we cannot have producivity and prosperity, but only that we are mostly not living in such a world.

In Mises' world, few, if any of us, have moved from experiencing imperfect contrition to perfect contrition. We act out of fear of hell, rather than love of God. Or, even if out of love of God, also out of fear of hell, that is, self-interest. Of course, many saints have acted solely out of Love for God, but this is a divine gift, and it is difficult to say that even for these souls that their motivating love for God was not touched also with fear of hell. I think it is rare for even a Christian soul to advance to such a state that it imbibes so thoroughly on God's love that it fears not hell. This is that state to which I and all Christians strive, but how many attain it in this world?

I've said much more than I wanted to on the article itself, since I find the comments much more interesting, but I'll leave it at that for now since I'm sure I'll get plenty of backlash for something I've already said, if not all of it. Briefly regarding the comments though, I find the discussion about the axiomatic nature of Austrianism to be very interesting. I'm trained as a mathematician, and I love the work of Gödel, so I found much of this discussion to be a bit more convincing, or at least opening my mind to some new ideas regarding Misesianism. But, later... it's late, and I've rambled enough. Thank you again for the article, and may we proceed charitably!
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#22
Austrian economics was not  invented by Ludwig von Mises. The roots of Austrian economics is Scholasticism. Ludwig von Mises refined it in the 20th century.

Austrian economics got started with the Spanish Scholastics of the 15th and 16th centuries. It is a great economic system with its roots in Catholic tradition.

info:

 http://www.applet-magic.com/scholastics.htm

http://mises.org/etexts/austrian.asp


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#23
SaintRafael Wrote:Austrian economics was not  invented by Ludwig von Mises. The roots of Austrian economics is Scholasticism. Ludwig von Mises refined it in the 20th century.

Austrian economics got started with the Spanish Scholastics of the 15th and 16th centuries. It is a great economic system with its roots in Catholic tradition.

info:

 http://www.applet-magic.com/scholastics.htm

http://mises.org/etexts/austrian.asp


heard it already by Tom Woods- who is now paid to dance for Mises.....

Capitalism came about due to English mercantile Prots, while there may be elements in it from earlier times, it is a Christ-less based economics of personal gain only....read John Medaille's book:

http://www.amazon.com/Vocation-Business-Social-Justice-Marketplace/dp/0826428088/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234359362&sr=1-2

Terace's it well and refute's the mythical "Spanish Scholastics of the 15th and 16th centuries".

Capitalism is based on personal greed, not fair reward for work
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#24
SaintRafael Wrote:For a defense of Capitalism, listen to this Thomas Woods interview on the Glenn Beck Radio program:

 http://libertymaven.com/2009/02/09/must-...show/4287/

Thomas Woods has recently wrote: "Meltdown: A Free-Market Look at Why the Stock Market Collapsed, the Economy Tanked, and Government Bailouts Will Make Things Worse".
 
The culprit is not Capitalism, but the garbage of Keynesian economics, which is nothing more than government interference.
 
It is Austrian economics that have been right for a century. They called every artificial bubble and bust. They have been true supporters of the Free Market over the failures of Keynesian and Supply Side economics.
 


Woods is a paid staffer at Mises...hwmmm...maybe he is not too open minded...heard arguements, grew up hating communism and thinkg capitalism was great, until one ses the man behind the mask there.....
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#25
Well, just maybe, Woods got a job there because he actually agrees with thier economic policies? There's a thought! Are all employed persons  described as "paid to dance" for their employers?
The problem with the english version of capitalism is that the Anglican religion didn't do its part to protect the common good and virtue of society, probably because the religion was founded on the basis of the Church doing whatever the state told them. In a Catholic state, on the other hand, the Church is the one who supervises these things, and is able to check the abuses of state power.
 I'm reminded of a story my grandfather told me about Murray Rothbard, one of the best Austrian economists in the last century: his parents were extremely liberal, and when he was about six, he shocked them by asking what the hell was so bad about Franco's defeat of the socialists, anyway?
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#26
didishroom Wrote:Technically, there's no such thing as Capitalism. It's mearly the abscence of government intervention in the economy.
Not so much. Really it's the absence of distributive justice. Strains of capitalism have government intervention as necessary parts. Keynesian economics anyone? Laissez-faire capitalism is no government intervention.
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#27
Anastasia Wrote:The problem with the english version of capitalism is that the Anglican religion didn't do its part to protect the common good and virtue of society, probably because the religion was founded on the basis of the Church doing whatever the state told them.
More like based on a non-distinction between the Church and the State. That is the heresy of Anglicanism in a nutshell. We need distinction between the Catholic Church and State but also unity.
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#28
SaintRafael Wrote:Austrian economics was not  invented by Ludwig von Mises. The roots of Austrian economics is Scholasticism. Ludwig von Mises refined it in the 20th century.

Austrian economics got started with the Spanish Scholastics of the 15th and 16th centuries. It is a great economic system with its roots in Catholic tradition.

info:

 http://www.applet-magic.com/scholastics.htm

http://mises.org/etexts/austrian.asp
Ha Ha Ha! Austrian economics Scholastic!? That is a laugh. It still lacks distributive justice which is part of the Thomistic definition of the science of economics.
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#29
has anyone here thought of distributing something to Vox and Quis for FE? (I know some of you have)
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#30
HailGilbert Wrote:
CarmeliteAtHeart Wrote:Here's a great article: http://distributist.blogspot.com/2007/02...alism.html

"In Distributism, productive property is owned by the many, rather than the few. In practical terms, it means small business, co-operatives and worker-owned and managed businesses run the day-to-day workings of commerce. Big businesses are encouraged by government to break up into smaller, independent units. Government, in turn, is reduced in size and scale, with local government handling most of the responsibility thus eliminating the need for overregulation and reducing the size and scope of government, as well as the demand on taxpayers. Hence, a true market-based economy arises, one not plagued by the lust for dominance that infests both Capitalism and Socialism.

Chesterton knew that the word Distributism sounds suspicious to the ear. He admitted it so, saying it was “awkward but accurate”. And we are waiting for a better name. But in the meantime, better to be accurate and awkward than to be false and flowing."

Please forgive my tooting my own horn, but that was my column that was originally posted in Gilbert Magazine. I'm honored that you quoted from it, and I thank you for it. [Image: tiphat2.gif][Image: asianbow.gif]

You're welcome. It's very well done :)

Pax Christi tecum.
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