The countries bordering the Rhine
#1
Catchy title, huh?  Seriously, I was re-reading Archbishop Lefebvre's "Letter to Confused Catholics" (there's a link to it on the FE site, in the category "For Catholics") and came across something that is interesting in the light of the current brouhaha over Bishop Williamson's comments regarding the Holocaust.  Probably we are all aware of how the Vatican II Council was hijacked by "progressives" but I noticed something interesting in reading the account tonight.

Archbishop Lefebvre describes what happened at the Council (italics added for emphasis):

"I was nominated a member of the Central Preparatory Commission by the pope and I took an assiduous and enthusiastic part in its two years of work.  The central commission had the responsibility of checking and examining all the preparatory schemas which came from the specialist commissions. I was in a good position therefore to know what had been done, what was to be examined, and what was to be brought before the assembly.

This work was carried out very conscientiously and meticulously. I still possess the seventy-two preparatory schemas; in them the Church’s doctrine is absolutely orthodox. They were adapted in a certain manner to our times, but with great moderation and discretion.

Everything was ready for the date announced and on 11th October, 1962, the Fathers took their places in the nave of St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome. But then an occurrence took place which had not been foreseen by the Holy See. From the very first days, the Council was besieged by the progressive forces. We experienced it, felt it; and when I say we, I mean the majority of the Council Fathers at that moment.

We had the impression that something abnormal was happening and this impression was rapidly confirmed; fifteen days after the opening session not one of the seventy-two schemas remained. All had been sent back, rejected, thrown into the waste-paper basket.  This happened in the following way. It had been laid down in the Council rules that two-thirds of the votes would be needed to reject a preparatory schema. Now when it was put to the vote there were 60% against the schemas and 40% in favor. Consequently the opposition had not obtained the two-thirds, and normally the Council would have proceeded on the basis of the preparations made.

It was then that a powerful, a very powerful organization showed its hand, set up by the Cardinals from those countries bordering the Rhine, complete with a well-organized secretariat. They went to find the Pope, John XXIII, and said to him: “This is inadmissible, Most Holy Father; they want us to consider schemas which do not have the majority,” and their plea was accepted. The immense work that had been found accomplished was scrapped and the assembly found itself empty-handed, with nothing ready. What chairman of a board meeting, however small the company, would agree to carry on without an agenda and without documents? Yet that is how the Council commenced."


The countries bordering the Rhine are Germany and France.  Germany, whose bishops are today issuing demands not only about what Bishop Williamson should do but also about what the Pope himself should do, and France, whose bishops, along with the German bishops, were most unhappy that the Pope dared to issue Summorum Pontificum.  Is there something in the waters of the Rhine that causes their defiance? 

I found it most interesting that this conflict in which the Germans and French vociferously oppose anything having to do with the longstanding traditions of the Catholic faith began forty-seven years ago in Rome when they derailed the Council.  How sad that John XXIII allowed them to do it.  How sad that so many were willing to Protestantize Holy Mother Church.  Archbishop Lefebvre quoted Cardinal Suenens exclaiming “Vatican II is the French Revolution in the Church.”  I wonder if the cardinal recalled that the revolutionaries desecrated the altar of Notre Dame with a naked women representing "Liberty." 





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#2
I wish VII never happened. It's so hard for me to understand how the popes (John XIII and Paul VI), ever allowed it to happen. Where was the Holy Spirit at that council? I can accept that there was some sort of conspiracy, but I think both popes were sincere enough in their good intentions. How could they have been so misled? How many souls have been deceived and are on their way to hell because of it? Countless.
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
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#3
I wish Adam never sinned--how many souls have gone to Hell because of that?!?

Fortunately, it is not I but God's providence that governs all human events. If he permits a particular evil, it is always for a greater good. Even if we can't see how that could be, we walk by faith and not by sight. The reality He has authored (and the mission He has given us in it) is always better than any alternative we might think up [Image: smile.gif]
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#4
SaintSebastian Wrote:I wish Adam never sinned--how many souls have gone to Hell because of that?!?

Fortunately, it is not I but God's providence that governs all human events. If he permits a particular evil, it is always for a greater good. Even if we can't see how that could be, we walk by faith and not by sight. The reality He has authored (and the mission He has given us in it) is always better than any alternative we might think up [Image: smile.gif]

I don't think God authored a Council that has led to so many thousands of Catholics losing the Faith.  Remember who convinced Eve to eat the apple.


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#5
PaxVobiscum Wrote:I don't think God authored a Council that has led to so many thousands of Catholics losing the Faith.  Remember who convinced Eve to eat the apple.

Wise words.

However, God did allow it to happen. Nothing happens without God's permission.
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#6
Bonifacio Wrote:
PaxVobiscum Wrote:I don't think God authored a Council that has led to so many thousands of Catholics losing the Faith.  Remember who convinced Eve to eat the apple.

Wise words.

However, God did allow it to happen. Nothing happens without God's permission.

God gave man free will but I don't think He permits what men do.  That would mean God often cooperates in evil.


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#7
PaxVobiscum Wrote:God gave man free will but I don't think He permits what men do.  That would mean God often cooperates in evil.

No, that only means that God allows men to do what they want even if it is evil. If God didn't want evil to occur, He simply wouldn't permit it and it wouldn't happen at all. However, if that were the case there wouldn't be any free will on our part.
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#8
PaxVobiscum Wrote:I don't think God authored a Council that has led to so many thousands of Catholics losing the Faith.  Remember who convinced Eve to eat the apple.

All reality is completely dependent on God. All that happens is willed by Him--either directly or premissively. But ultimately, reality is what it is according to the Creator's will. Can any of us say, "God should not have allowed it" in regards to anything He has deigned to allow?

While Eve listened to the serpent, it was God who created the serpent and permitted it to seduce Eve, He permitted Eve to be seduced, He permitted she and Adam to partake of the forbidden fruit, He gave them the ability to sin against Him.

As Ecclesiastes says, "Say not: What thinkest thou is the cause that former times were better than they are now? for this manner of question is foolish" (Eccles. 7:11). And again, "In the good day enjoy good things, and beware beforehand of the evil day: for God hath made both the one and the other" (Eccles 7:15a).
St. Alphonsus concurs: "It is certain and of faith, that whatever happens, happens by the will of God."

Even in sin, we must see God's will--we must draw the rose from the thorns, as St. Catherine says. God, in His infinite goodness and love, has placed us here in this reality with all its troubles. The greater the evil present, the greater the opportunity for even greater virtue. This is what uniformity--not just conformity--with the will of God is all about. And this is where true peace of heart is found.

 
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#9
SaintSebastian Wrote:I wish Adam never sinned--how many souls have gone to Hell because of that?!?

Fortunately, it is not I but God's providence that governs all human events. If he permits a particular evil, it is always for a greater good. Even if we can't see how that could be, we walk by faith and not by sight. The reality He has authored (and the mission He has given us in it) is always better than any alternative we might think up [Image: smile.gif]
Too much of my extended family are part of the fallout of VII for me to be very philosophical about it. And although He may permit it, God hates sin.
Oh my Jesus, I surrender myself to you. Take care of everything.--Fr Dolindo Ruotolo

Persevere..Eucharist, Holy Rosary, Brown Scapular, Confession. You will win.
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#10

To return to the OP, what is it about Germany and France that makes their bishops so rebellious? Is it the French Revolution still affecting the French and the Nazi era still affecting the Germans? Every country in Europe has been involved in numerous wars but bishops of other European countries seem to be less likely to get in the Pope's face. What do European Fisheaters think about this?
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