The countries bordering the Rhine
#11
I'd like to see what the original schemas said about, say, religious liberty or ecumenism or other religions (esp. the Jews). Surely something more moderate than Pius IX or whatever, but apparently not crazy like what came out of it. Perhaps if these schemas still exist, they could form the basis for the "clarification" of Vatican II...
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#12
PaxVobiscum Wrote:To return to the OP, what is it about Germany and France that makes their bishops so rebellious?

Secular interference. Those countries are also the leaders of the EU, which is attempting to reconstitute Europe on a basis in which the Christianity is not recognized in any way.

Quote: Is it the French Revolution still affecting the French and the Nazi era still affecting the Germans?

Yes, because those events are what this controversy is about. It's about the French Revolution and the lie that Nazism was Catholic. It's about the war against the Church, and the ideas that threaten that war, the truth about Revolution.
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#13
There has always been the problem of prelates seeking worldly honor and recognition--it just takes different forms depending on what the world values in that particular time or place.

In more distant times, it usually involved amassing wealth and land, hobnobbing with the upper class at parties, having lots of kids with a concubine, and not speaking out against the sins of elite friends. Coincidentally,  condemning heresy actually helped them maintain their status. It showed everyone strength and authority and maintained the church's privleged place in society--if a heretical sect became the state religion, bye-bye societal perks (obviously many, many did so for the sake of souls and the truth, they used the rightfully privileged place of the Church for good, etc. but I am just speaking of the bad prelates here). However, when condemning it would cause them to lose their privileged place, they were often silent or complicit (see England when Henry VIII abandoned the faith). Bad prelates acted like worldly feudal lords rather than good shepherds.

However, now, what wins the respect of the world is being "modern," "open-minded," "tolerant," "democratic," "inoffensive," compromising, and essentially weak. Bad prelates in our day act like worldly politicians or CEOs. Yet, the end goal is the same--to maintain the respect of the world and other elites (ie politicians and those like them). However, they will still harshly condemn those things that will cause them to lose that respect as we see in recent events.

I think this is especially the case in France, which has been having these problems since the Revolution, and now Germany due to their collective guilt complex over the absolutism associate with the evils of Naziism.


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