Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor By Ann Lauren
#11
JonathanCid Wrote:I don't want to de-rail the thread, but if someone could give me the reasoning in one of their posts as the discussion carries on, why are so many traditional Catholics also monarchists?

The three main reasons are:

1.) The Church is a monarchy, and Christ is King of Kings, so a secular state should be built along the same principles.

2.) Monarchies have a historic relationship as being protectors and defenders of the Christian faith, whereas the modern republic is rooted in a lot of Enlightenment ideals.

3.) Nostalgia.

Reason 1 is probably the best argument. Reason 2 is only a partial truth, since royal absolutism has long been a stumbling block to the full expression of Christian truth. Reason 3 is.... well, nothing necessarily wrong with nostalgia, but, you know.
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#12
JonathanCid Wrote:I don't want to de-rail the thread, but if someone could give me the reasoning in one of their posts as the discussion carries on, why are so many traditional Catholics also monarchists?

In the words of a traditional catholic blogger:

A monarchy best reflects the hierarchical reality of heaven. When we pray the Pater Noster we say: fiat volúntas tua, sicut in cælo, et in terra (thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven). By this very phrase we pledge our support of monarchism as heaven (the Church Triumphant) is a monarchy with God as the head, just as the Church Militant has the Pope as its monarchial head. It is because of this that I call monarchism sublime. Monarchies, some might think ironically, also afford citizens much more freedom than democratic states. In lands where mob rule and popularity determine the course a goverment takes, it is never long before the masses realise that they can vote themselves a share of their neighbour's goods. This leads to the socialistic welfare states we see today and the "salary equalisation" taxes. Furthermore, monarchs are always tightly bound by tradition, custom, and law. They tend to have much smaller bounds than the ever-expanding powers of democracies. In the Middle Ages, if a King broke the law, the great men of the realm would oppose him for his own sake as was done with the famous Magna Carta. If the king went too far, the Church would excommunicate him. On the other hand, democracy has given us the likes of Hitler and on a much lesser scale we see the impunity with which some modern democratic leaders act. Admittedly, local ordinaries and popes willing to exercise their office on such leaders are necessary for a monarchy to function properly and would probably help with the current situation to a degree. Pope Leo XIII said in Rerum Novarum, that "if society is to be healed now, in no other way can it be healed save by a return to Christian life and Christian institutions". One such Christian institution is that of the Catholic monarchy. A Catholic republic is paradoxical, for it is really an anti-Catholic form of government staffed by Catholics. The principles that underly "democracy", those of 1776 and 1789, are absolutely incompatible with Catholicism.
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#13
Quote:If the Empire is restored, I'd like to see it return to its original status as an elective monarchy, rather than a hereditary one (just like the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth). There is no point in having electors if every Emperor is going to be a Habsburg, anyway.

Agreed. Though for continuity's sake, I think the first person they elect at the start of the restored empire should still be the current Habsburg pretender. And then, after that, move away from that dynastic house.

Or perhaps there should be some arranged marriages whereby the Bonapartes, the Habsburgs, and the Hohenzollern breed so that their lines join in one heir, and then he can be the first emperor of a restored Empire.

Likewise, I think the Bonapartes, Orleans, and Bourbons should marry or mutually adopt in such a way as to present one French pretender who could be a rallying point for restoring that throne, uniting the disparate factions (though I think they already tried that, and ultra-legitimists didnt recognize it, at least the mutual-adopthing thing)

lol, perhaps even the Duke of Bavaria could mix his line somehow with the Windsors...

Quote:And furthermore, the Emperor ought to actually be crowned in Rome, not just be an "Emperor-elect".

Definitely. This is a must. When this stopped happening it was the beginning of the end.
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#14
Harlequin, Bonifacio, thanks! No more answers to my question please folks - don't wanna derail the OP's thread.
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#15
JonathanCid Wrote:Harlequin, Bonifacio, thanks! No more answers to my question please folks - don't wanna derail the OP's thread.

Just one more little response- if you want to learn more about the Church and monarchy, especially in regards to the Holy Roman Empire, I post an excellent article on the matter here just a couple days ago- http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/...id=3295862
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#16
Thank you Caesar!
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#17
7HolyCats Wrote:Agreed. Though for continuity's sake, I think the first person they elect at the start of the restored empire should still be the current Habsburg pretender. And then, after that, move away from that dynastic house.

A kingdom is translated from one people to another, because of injustices, and wrongs, and injuries, and divers deceits.

 

 

According to the Vision of Dante this is not written in the stars. According to modern treaties the restoration of the Habsburg Monarchy is prohibited. This is found in the Austrian Peace Treaty of Vienna May 15, 1955 (The 515 Treaty) & Treaty between the United States and Austria, signed on August 24, 1921. And the world will not witness a Habsburg as Holy Roman Emperor according to Divine Scripture: A kingdom is translated from one people to another, because of injustices, and wrongs, and injuries, and divers deceits. And this great injustice or wrong done by the House of Habsburg was the failure to save Italy.  So the next Holy Roman Emperor will most likely not come from the House of Habsburg. The House of Habsburg as contrasted with The DXV (515) or The Greyhound as fortold by the Vision of Dante are of a completely different mind set, a completely different set of priorities.  Dante’s complaint against the House of Habsburg is found in Canto VI & VII of Purgatorio:

 

House of Habsburg failed to save Italy:

 


"The one who sits highest and wears the look

          Of having failed to do what he should have done

          And neglects to move his lips with others singing

"Was Rudolph the Emperor, who could have cured

          The wounds that meant the death of Italy:

          Though someone else should help, it is too late.

Purgatorio Canto VII

 

 

House of Habsburg failed to save Italy:

 


If there is no one in your saddle, what good 

 was it Justinian repaired your harness? 

Your shame would be less great had he not done so. 

Ah, you who should be firm in your devotion 

and let Caesar occupy the saddle, 

if you but heeded what God writes for you, 

see how vicious is the beast not goaded 

and corrected by the spurs, 

ever since you took the bridle in your hands. 

O German Albert, who abandon her 

now that she is untamed and wild, 

you who should bestride her saddle-bow, 

may the just sentence falling from the stars 

upon your blood be strange enough and clear 

that your successor live in fear of it! 

In that far land, both you and your father, 

dragged along by greed, allowed 

the garden of the empire to be laid waste. 

Come and see the Montecchi and Cappelletti, 

Monaldi and Filippeschi, those already wretched 

and the ones in dread, you who have no care. 

Come, cruel one, come and see the tribulation 

your nobles suffer and consider their distress. 

Then you shall see how dark is Santafiora. 

Come and see your Rome and how she weeps, 

widowed and bereft, and cries out day and night: 

'My Caesar, why are you not with me?' 

Come and see your people, how they love 

one another, and, if no pity for us moves you, 

come for shame of your repute. 

And if it is lawful to ask, O Jove on high, 

you who were crucified on earth for us,

are your righteous eyes turned elsewhere, 

or, in your abyss of contemplation,

are you preparing some mysterious good,

beyond our comprehension? 

For each Italian city overflows with tyrants 

and every clown that plays the partisan 

thinks he is the new Marcellus. 

My Florence, you may well be pleased 

with this digression, which does not touch you, 

thanks to the exertions of your people. 

Many others have justice in their hearts, 

even if its arrow's late to fly from all their talking, 

but yours have justice ready on their tongues. 

Many others refuse the public burden. But yours 

are eager with an answer without even being asked, 

crying out: 'I'll take it on my shoulders.' 

Count yourself happy then, for you have reason to, 

since you are rich, at peace, and wise! 

If I speak truth, the facts cannot deny it. 

Athens and Sparta, which made the ancient laws 

and had such civil order, 

gave only hints of the good life compared to you, 

who make such fine provisions 

that the threads you've spun but in October 

do not survive to mid-November. 

How many times within your memory 

have you changed laws, coinage, offices, 

as well as customs, and renewed your members! 

If you recall your past and think upon it clearly, 

you will see that you are like a woman, ill in bed, 

who on the softest down cannot find rest 

but twisting, turning, seeks to ease her pain

Purgatorio Canto VI

 

 

The House of Habsburg failed to save Italy then in Dante’s time and in our time. This is evident with Otto von Habsburg’s preoccupation with the secular European Union. Contrast this with Dante’s Vision of the DXV (515) or the Greyhound who will by justice set Italy aright and therefore the world aright.

 

The DXV (515) The Greyhound to save Italy:

 


'Many are the creatures that she mates with,

and there will yet be more, until the hound

shall come who'll make her die in pain.

'He shall not feed on lands or lucre

 but on wisdom, love, and power.

Between felt and felt shall be his birth.

'He shall be the salvation of low-lying Italy,

for which maiden Camilla, Euryalus,

Turnus, and Nisus died of their wounds.

'He shall hunt the beast through every town

till he has sent her back to Hell

whence primal envy set her loose.

'Therefore, for your sake, I think it wise

you follow me: I will be your guide,

leading you, from here, through an eternal place


Canto I Inferno

 

The DXV (515) The Greyhound:


 

'Know that the vessel which the serpent broke 

was and is not. Let those who are to blame 

take heed: God's vengeance fears no hindrance. 

'The eagle that left its feathers on the car 

so that it first was monster and then prey 

shall not remain without an heir forever. 

'For I see clearly and do thus declare: 

stars already near at hand promise us a time 

safe from all delay, from all impediment, 

'when a Five Hundred Ten and Five, 

sent by God, shall slay the thieving wench 

and the giant sinning there beside her. 

'Perhaps my words, obscure as those of Themis 

or the Sphinx, persuade you less 

because, like theirs, they cloud your mind. 

'Events soon to occur shall be the Naiads 

that solve this hard enigma 

without the loss of flocks or ears of corn. 

Canto XXXIII Purgatorio
Many have wondered about the meaning of the DXV (515) prophecy of Dante. On many levels it will become apparent after the fact. That is after Italy is set right and therefore the world set aright by the Greyhound. But what I find very interesting is that the modern peace Treaty or the 515 Treaty prohibits the restoration of the Hapsburg monarchy but does not prohibit the restoration of the Holy Roman Emperor. Maybe this is what is meant by Dante’s Prophecy of the DXV (515) Time will tell. I think that is a very good explanation of the meaning of Dante’s 515. This Treaty gives way to the coming restoration of the Holy Roman Emperor

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#18
Since when did Dante acquire prophetic foresight?

Bob
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