effect of rock music
#51
LaRoza Wrote:It is funny reading this. It is done for effect, having the contrasting voices and that band is very, very light.

What "effect" is that?  Teleologically, what is the end of the effect? 

Quote: It isn't meant to be edifying, but to be part of the entire song.

Parts contribute to the whole.  What is the whole of this song?  

Quote: It isn't meant to reflect how one lives, but a person's feelings. Songs are songs, not gospel.
That's a narrow view of what songs are.  Schubert could write an artistic song about fishing or compose a Mass.  Feelings are attached to ideas, bad ideas produce bad feelings that can have bad consequences, big or little.

Quote:It never claimed to be great. It isn't Satanic though, any more than any other non liturgical music.

Well, you are ruling out the possibility of any music having an adversarial (ie. Satanic) influence when compared with music (secular or sacred) that brings one closer to God and God's created nature.

Quote: Hey, you are the one condemning, not me. I didn't say I love all music, just that it is amusing to see people condemn things.

Why is it amusing? That's a curious reaction.  You are defending something from criticism by attacking the critic with accusations of "contrivance" and minimizing the criticisms as self-evidently not a big deal. Yet you offer no actual supporting arguments based on what the music actually is. 

You seem to view it as purposeless, meaningless and harmless, and therefore God is not relevent to it,  and no one need take care when indulging in it. 

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#52
I'm going to go to Mass now. Fix up your posts and I'll respond when I get back.
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#53
I wonder if those who are so eager to defend rock and metal even took the time to read prof. Fedeli's article in the beginning of this thread.
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#54
LaRoza Wrote:It is a silly assertion. The music itself is not liturgical, and some may feel entertainment is wrong, but just because the voice is not what they want doesn't change the meaning.

What makes you think that the music you are referencing is not liturgical?  You probably don't recognize the liturgical parallels and mockeries that go on in concerts of various sorts and in varying degrees.

Quote:Most people will not understand that Crade of Filth song I posted. I posted it to show what I consider a medium standard of contrast to the point I wouldn't even call Evanescence even remotely heavy.

What do mean by "heavy?"  I think you mean the severity of the timbre and the exaggeration of the beat being overemphasized, but in any case, what does that have to do with what we're talking about?  John Denver or Paul Simon could be substituted for Evanescence just as easily. 

As an aside, the feeling of weight pressing down on a person is often a sign of demonic obsession prior to possession. 

Quote: Also, real Satanic music (rather than just godless or secular, which most music is to some degree) is usually not raspy like that.

"Real" Satanic music wouldn't advertise itself as "Satanic."  These P.T. Barnum characters you've posted are for a narrow population's consumption. 

The difference between Pop Satanism with its circus aspects and the shadowy Luciferian influence is like night and day.  The one actually provides cover for the other while wearing down the sensitivities of its audience.


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#55
didishroom Wrote:It's right from the pit of hell itself.  
And you know that, how? How does 'creepy' voices fit into Satan's grand plan? Yes, we will add contrast to this girl's sweet voice. Yeah that'll bring people to hell. [Image: huh.gif] 

You've never heard any recordings of the possessed?  Have you read any books by Exorcists?  The voice has quite a spiritual dimension to it that many people don't realize.   In the voice of the priest is the power to consecrate, forgive sins etc.  It was the voice of God that created the Universe. 

The song itself isn't meant to corrupt people just as a single drop doesn't take the blame for the flood.  But it is all part of the stream of corruption exhibiting a pulling force that drags people away from God, through the passions or distraction or simply chipping away at their nerves or their morals.   Music physical invades a person.  Art is simply on the wall and the viewer has to engage it.  Music goes into you directly. 


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#56
Gerard Wrote:
didishroom Wrote:It's right from the pit of hell itself.  
And you know that, how? How does 'creepy' voices fit into Satan's grand plan? Yes, we will add contrast to this girl's sweet voice. Yeah that'll bring people to hell. [Image: huh.gif] 

You've never heard any recordings of the possessed?  Have you read any books by Exorcists?  The voice has quite a spiritual dimension to it that many people don't realize.

Demons speak with velvet voices whenever they can. Have you not heard them speak?
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#57
Gerard Wrote:What makes you think that the music you are referencing is not liturgical?  You probably don't recognize the liturgical parallels and mockeries that go on in concerts of various sorts and in varying degrees.
A concert is not the same as music, and I'm not saying that most groups are good, only that a style of music cannot be condemned, at least, no style mentioned here.

Quote:What do mean by "heavy?"  I think you mean the severity of the timbre and the exaggeration of the beat being overemphasized, but in any case, what does that have to do with what we're talking about?  John Denver or Paul Simon could be substituted for Evanescence just as easily. 
I mean that the elements you find to be disagreeable exist in other ways. To me, who has in the past listened to music which I will not post here, Cradle of Filth is light, and Evanescence is extremely minor in comparison to that. You can find elements of their style in most styles, including those you would find to be agreeable. Yes, it will be done in a more subtle way, but most music will make such contrasts. For Cradle, it involves the skilled voices of Dani and Sarah (Sarah is an opera singer) which are in extreme contrast. For Evanescence, it just the relatively deeper and slightly more corse voice of Paul McCoy as compared to Amy Lee. In concertertos, it may be the contrast of a violin to a cello. It is all the same effect to various degrees and can be used to show any subject. A work may use it for the effect of pain and suffering of Christ, or as it is often claimed the sounds of demons. The style is not the issue.

Quote:As an aside, the feeling of weight pressing down on a person is often a sign of demonic obsession prior to possession. 
Also a sign of anxiety and sin before being liberated. Amy Lee has said what the song is about, and it isn't all that big of a deal.

She said:

Amy Lee Wrote:Open-mindedness. It's about waking up to all the things you've been missing for so long. One day someone said something that made my heart race for a second and I realized that for months I'd been numb, just going through the motions of life.

Quote:"Real" Satanic music wouldn't advertise itself as "Satanic."  These P.T. Barnum characters you've posted are for a narrow population's consumption. 

The difference between Pop Satanism with its circus aspects and the shadowy Luciferian influence is like night and day.  The one actually provides cover for the other while wearing down the sensitivities of its audience.

Yes it would. Real satanic people, Christian Satanic people who acknowledge Satan as the one known by the Catholic Church, do not hide it in music. I will not post such music and have never posted it on this forum.

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#58
LaRoza Wrote:Demons speak with velvet voices whenever they can. Have you not heard them speak?


They try to speak sweetly but when you frustrate them, the quality of the voice changes.  And they shriek in terror and fear when the angels are keeping them at bay.
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#59
Gerard Wrote:
LaRoza Wrote:Demons speak with velvet voices whenever they can. Have you not heard them speak?


They try to speak sweetly but when you frustrate them, the quality of the voice changes.  And they shriek in terror and fear when the angels are keeping them at bay.

Yes, and why would people who are Satanic and trying to spread it emulate the suffering of demons (which is a good thing)?
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#60
LaRoza Wrote:A concert is not the same as music, and I'm not saying that most groups are good, only that a style of music cannot be condemned, at least, no style mentioned here. 

Well that's just a restatement of what I said earlier, you may find a good "rock" song but as a percentage of what is out there, it's going to be miniscule compared to trying to find a good waltz or folksong. 

Quote:I mean that the elements you find to be disagreeable exist in other ways.  To me, who has in the past listened to music which I will not post here, Cradle of Filth is light, and Evanescence is extremely minor in comparison to that.

Yet the elements you cite can be compared to levels of pornography as well. 

It is the end that the music points toward that is disagreeable.

Quote: You can find elements of their style in most styles, including those you would find to be agreeable.

Those elements in art are called the "plastic" means.  It's the design that is the problem.

Quote: Yes, it will be done in a more subtle way, but most music will make such contrasts.

There is intrinsic musical quality and there are extrinsic characteristics associated with the individual work.  Contrast is simply a universal observance in order to achieve variety. All art must have unity and variety in order to be a cohesive integrated unit. 

Quote: For Cradle, it involves the skilled voices of Dani and Sarah (Sarah is an opera singer) which are in extreme contrast.
 

When you say she's an opera singer, do you mean she was a performing opera singer for an established company like the Metropolitan Opera House and performed full operas from the standard repertoire?  Puccini, Mozart, Verdi, Wagner? 

Secondly, to what end are the voices set in contrast? 

Quote: For Evanescence, it just the relatively deeper and slightly more corse voice of Paul McCoy as compared to Amy Lee.
In concertertos, it may be the contrast of a violin to a cello.

That's called a contrast in Timbre, there are many types of contrast in music.

It is all the same effect to various degrees and can be used to show any subject.

Quote:A work may use it for the effect of pain and suffering of Christ, or as it is often claimed the sounds of demons.

Yes. Prokofiev's Peter and the Wolf is an example where it actually develops into an extra musical motif with a narrator helping you understand it all.  There are no doubts about that piece. 

Quote:The style is not the issue.

The style places limitations on the piece of music.  If the style is limited the piece will be otherwise, the piece will be of a different style.  It may take some elements from it, but odds are another style will have already developed something further along. 


Quote:Amy Lee has said what the song is about, and it isn't all that big of a deal.

She said:

Amy Lee Wrote:Open-mindedness. It's about waking up to all the things you've been missing for so long. One day someone said something that made my heart race for a second and I realized that for months I'd been numb, just going through the motions of life.

Performers often tell a tale or two about how they chanced along the idea for a song.  Mel Torme was in a heatwave and wanted to write something to remind him of a cool winter's day and so he wrote The Christmas Song.  This is all part of the marketing. 

I'm sure as part of her persona, revealing what the lyrics are about is unthinkable.  The non-chalent answer is to be expected.  But regardless of what she says the lyrics mean, the meaning of the lyrics as they sit on the paper is indicative of making another creature the author of life.  Intentionally or unintentionally the author of the words has substituted God for something else. 


Quote:Yes it would. Real satanic people, Christian Satanic people who acknowledge Satan as the one known by the Catholic Church, do not hide it in music. I will not post such music and have never posted it on this forum.

Those aren't what the Luciferians are.  Infiltration is one of the devil's key weapons.  To say that Satan and or Lucifer would not take advantage of the non-critical listening of the masses would be naive.  The Exorcists I have read are virtually unanimous in their denunciation of these musical genres and the susceptibility of the unaware masses of people listening.l
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