Vatican 2's reductio ad absurdum - New Order parish in open revolt.
#11
Slayer Wrote:
HMiS Wrote:The same man also administers invalid baptism with an heretical form. Those poor kids and erring parents who think their kids were baptized!

How do you know? What did he say when he administered the baptism?

It's made the rounds on the internet several times over that certain parishes in Australia have baptized invalidly.  There is video evidence and chancery documents to support this.
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#12
Telemaque Wrote:The missals from the early sixties repeat the mantra of "full and active participation."

I've heard that the Latin phrase actually meant a more active interior participation!
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#13
Quote:How do you know? What did he say when he administered the baptism?

He baptized them in the Name of the Creator, the Redeemer and the Sanctifier.

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#14
Unless I've completely misread this issue, "Father" Kennedy appears to be a puppet in the gay agenda.  His parish seems to be a radical leftist trumpet making noise for their cause rather than adherence to the Church.  If the bricks and mortar are owned by the diocese then the authorities need to be called to physically remove Mr. Kennedy with restraining orders issued if necessary.  Kennedy should count his lucky stars he is of this millenia and not the past.
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#15
Spooky Wrote:
Quote:How do you know? What did he say when he administered the baptism?

He baptized them in the Name of the Creator, the Redeemer and the Sanctifier.

That really scares me.

I have been baptized from an NO priest. And because I have been I have doubt in its validity because of events like the one described here. I inquired into a conditional baptism with an SSPX priest but he told me that there needs to be some kind of evidence that one is needed. I kinda wanted to tell him that the present state of the Church is the evidence. It is like a monkey on my back. I feel I should get one for peace of mind.

I do not know for certain that my baptism was valid.

Does anyone know how I can investigate the priest who baptized me? Is there a way to find out his current position within the Church? Whether or not he is in good standing and so on?
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#16
Fr. Kennedy has been at St. Mary's in South Brisbane for over 28 years, before then he was a chaplain in the Aust. Navy.
28 years is far too long for any priest to be anywhere because, as we've seen on this side of the argument, the cult of personality takes over from the realities. There are a bucket load of problems, one being this -
[URL=http://coo-eesfromthecloisternovices.blogspot.com/2009/02/re-theologising-church.html Wrote:Here[/URL]]Diana writes:
Posted on 13 Feb 09 at 12:32pm

Father Peter,
I don’t understand if you don’t believe in the Nicene Creed; in the Virgin Mary. Why do you worship at St Mary’s. What symbolism do you draw from Mary? And if she isn’t the Virgin Mary; what makes her so special to other mothers?
Sincerely,
Diana


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Diana writes:
Posted on 13 Feb 09 at 01:24pm

I guess some questions are just too hard to answer; and that’s where you have failed Peter.


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Father Peter writes:
Posted on 13 Feb 09 at 01:25pm

Diana,

In 325AD the Emporer Constantine in order to unify the empire turned to the new Christian religion and imposed upon the Bishops what’s known today as the Nicene creed. Those bishops like Arius who couldn’t agree with this creed were banished. Those who fell into line were feted. Constantine returned to Rome to murder his wife and son. He was a brutal man who refused to be Baptised into the Christian religion until he was on his deathbed. A year ago I was privilaged to be at a home-birth. What an amazing experience it was. As a woman, do you really believe that Jesus wasn’t born in a normal way through the birth canal but appeared miraculously outside of his Mother’s womb? Because this theology was formulated in a medieval context it was believed that if the hymen was broken a woman was no longer a virgin. Hence, Jesus needed to be born like a ray of light coming through a window. Do you honestly think that modern scientific people can accept such nonsense? The church needs a third Vatican council to retheologise its belief system in the context of our modern scientific world.

Sincerely,

Peter Kennedy



In 2008 Rome issued a statement regarding Baptisms -
Quote:RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS PROPOSED
on the validity of Baptism conferred with the formulas
«I baptize you in the name of the Creator,
and of the Redeemer, and of the Sanctifier»
and «I baptize you in the name of the Creator,
and of the Liberator, and of the Sustainer»
QUESTIONS

First question: Whether the Baptism conferred with the formulas «I baptize you in the name of the Creator, and of the Redeemer, and of the Sanctifier» and «I baptize you in the name of the Creator, and of the Liberator, and of the Sustainer» is valid?

Second question: Whether the persons baptized with those formulas have to be baptized in forma absoluta?

RESPONSES

To the first question: Negative.

To the second question: Affirmative.

The Supreme Pontiff Benedict XVI, at the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, approved these Responses, adopted in the Ordinary Session of the Congregation, and ordered their publication.

Rome, from the Offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, February 1, 2008.
William Cardinal Levada
Prefect

+ Angelo Amato, S.D.B.
Titular Archbishop of Sila

This came out after Card. Levada visited Brisbane around this time last year.

There is also a news report -


The funny thing about all this is that the church building itself still remains intact, even the altar rails are still in place! Also note the banner on the Church fence, it's taken from Pope Benedict's statement to the French Bishops regarding those attached to the traditional Mass...me and you...

Then there is the letter that the Archbishop sent to Fr. Kennedy about 3 weeks ago -
Quote:Dear Peter

Thank you for your letter of 12 January with its invitation to further discuss the situation of St Mary's South Brisbane. I see no reason to do so. I have repeatedly asked for changes but you and the community have not budged an inch.

Moreover South Brisbane's instant disclosure of my letters and comments in the media gives me no reason to enter into discussion. By all means consult the people of St Mary's as you wish but ultimately you yourself are the shepherd and leader of its decisions. Time and time again I have spelt out a request for changes at St Mary's Parish if it is to remain in communion with the Archdiocese of Brisbane and the Roman Catholic Church. However time and time again St Mary's has chosen to go its own way. therefore reluctantly I make the following decisions.

1. I will terminate your appointment as Administrator of St Mary's Parish effective Saturday, 21 February 2009 unless you were to resign beforehand.

I would like to add, without trying to exert pressure, that if you wish to retire from active service as a priest, the Archdiocese will assist you as it does with other Archdiocesan preiests who retire.

2. From the 21st February 2009 I will appoint Dean Ken Howell, of St Stephen's Cathedral, as Administrator of St Mary's, until a new Administrator is appointed.

From Sunday 22 Februay 2009 regular Masses at 7am and 9am will be celebrated at St Mary's Church until the matter is reviewed. Other sacraments of the Church will be available and can be arranged with Dean Ken Howell. Church goers attached to St Mary's are most welcome to continue, as well as those who wish to return to the parish or those who wish to become new parishioners.

3. I sincerely hope that St Mary's emphasis on social justice will remain. However such matters should be discussed with the new Administrator.

4. Because of its name, chosen originally in 1864, I also hope that sound Marian devotion will be promoted at St Mary's as was normal in the past. I will do whatever I can to facilitate and encourage this devotion.

5. Because there is doubt about the validity of the many baptisms performed at St Mary's, I will nominate a special day in the near future when baptisms can be performed at St Stephen's Cathedral and certificates issued to parents concerned about validity, or those who are adult converts. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith made it clear in March 2008 that invalid baptisms cannot be dismissed and forgotten. They must be corrected.

6. Peter you have already claimed in the media that you may lead people who desire to follow you into a breakaway Christian community elsewhere in South Brisbane. I cannot stop you from doing so. However those who follow you should realise that they will not be in communion with the Roman Catholic Church or the Archdiocese of Brisbane.

Peter, making these decisions gives me no satisfaction whatsoever. The separation of Christians is contrary to all that Christ prayed for. Nor does such division promote the Kingdom of God. You have had ample time to make a considered decision. Please God the division that exists at the present time will be healed in the future, probably not in my time. I ask the priests, deacons, religious and people of the Archdiocese of Brisbane to pray for me and for all who belong to the Archdiocese, especially the community of St Mary's in its present situation. In this matter I pray that Mary the mother of Jesus will be our inspiration and guide as we seek her prayerful support for the healing of the Archdiocese of Brisbane, and St Mary's Parish.

Sincerely in Christ,

Most Rev John A Bathersby DD - ARCHBISHOP OF BRISBANE

The Dean of the Cathedral was to take over this past weekend but Police told him to stay away after a bomb threat....

At the end of the Day the blame must be on the Bishop of brisbane who did nothing untill Rome and the media got hold of it.
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#17
Slayer Wrote:I feel I should get one for peace of mind.

I do not know for certain that my baptism was valid.

Does anyone know how I can investigate the priest who baptized me? Is there a way to find out his current position within the Church? Whether or not he is in good standing and so on?

If he said "I baptise you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" or using equal words (Holy Ghost for Holy Spirit, etc) it is valid. A non-Catholic can baptise.
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#18
ONeill Wrote:
Slayer Wrote:I feel I should get one for peace of mind.

I do not know for certain that my baptism was valid.

Does anyone know how I can investigate the priest who baptized me? Is there a way to find out his current position within the Church? Whether or not he is in good standing and so on?

If he said "I baptise you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" or using equal words (Holy Ghost for Holy Spirit, etc) it is valid. A non-Catholic can baptise.

I am aware of that. But how do I know the correct way was said?
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#19
bkovacs Wrote:Where is the outcry from Bishops over the world over this debacle?.

You need true Bishops not modernist Apostates for that.
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#20
Not suprisingly, Fr. Kennedy's neo-gnosticist crusade has become something of a cause célèbre for Australia's liberal elite establishment and the politically correct who wish to re-fashion the Church in their own image. This rather childishly contrived rant (or is it propaganda?) is typical of the wholesale media 'angle'..


Juliette Hughes - Catholic Church must rediscover a tolerant God
THE banner outside St Mary's Catholic Church, South Brisbane, reads: "Everyone has a place in the church. Every person without exception should be able to feel at home and never rejected." These are the words of Pope Benedict XVI himself. But it seems they don't apply to the community of St Mary's.
God is good. Organised religion is often not. To some in the Catholic hierarchy, it doesn't matter how much godly good you do if you don't toe the line. The past 40 years have seen a determined fundamentalist backlash against the openness and reforms of the Second Vatican Council that began so hopefully in the 1960s.
Now an entire parish of decent, spiritual people can be threatened with expulsion from the faith because some bigot has protested to Rome that they are, horror of horrors, too tolerant and accepting of diversity. Most parishes are burdened with a tiny minority of fundamentalist obsessives who dob in priests for supposed breaches of tradition. They are successful way beyond their numerical strength; indeed, the Vatican is notoriously deaf to anyone else in the laity, ignoring the concerns of the vast majority of those who call themselves Catholic. Accordingly, in August last year, the Archbishop of Brisbane, John Bathersby, wrote a letter to Peter Kennedy, St Mary's parish priest. In it he objected to the kind of prayers said at the parish's liturgies and to the style of clothing worn by Father Kennedy at Mass (Kennedy wears ordinary clothes much of the time).
It wasn't only about clothes. The parish was adapting some prayers, allowing divorced and gay people to receive the Eucharist and letting groups such as a Buddhist group and a gay choir use the church when it wasn't in use for Catholic celebrations. According to the letter, this was enough to put them outside the Catholic Church.
"The question for me," the archbishop wrote, "is not so much whether St Mary's should be closed down, but whether St Mary's will close itself down by practices that separate it from communion with the Roman Catholic Church."
 
Now Kennedy has been sacked and yesterday a new, Vatican-approved parish priest was shoehorned into the place. Kennedy has said that he intends to offer the 9am Mass today, and many are expected to attend.
In the meantime, the Pope is battling on another front: the public relations disaster he incurred when he rescinded the excommunication of four dissident hyper-conservative bishops. These chaps, so much more acceptable to the Vatican than the gentle people of St Mary's, belong to the Society of St Pius X. The SSPX adheres to a form of liturgy that was rejected by the Second Vatican Council as anti-Semitic: it includes a disgraceful Good Friday prayer for the conversion of "the perfidious Jews".
Unfortunately, Richard Williamson, one of the four bishops, went further, stating on Swedish television that no more than 300,000 Jews perished under the Nazis, and that he did not believe there were gas chambers in Auschwitz.
It is baffling that the Vatican machinery that can sniff out a recalcitrant liberal in Queensland did not pick this up. For those who adhere to notions of papal infallibility, it wasn't a good look: either the Pope didn't know and blundered into this, or he knew and didn't care until the international fuss. In damage control, the Pope stated that Holocaust denial was "intolerable". And then he had to go and threaten to excommunicate Williamson again.
Now that puts the excommunicated Kennedy and the St Mary's folk in some unpleasant company. But we have to realise that to the mindset of fundamentalists, all deviation from the party line is intolerable, so Holocaust denial is only as bad to them as some other things that wouldn't bother you or me.
Let's see: allowing women to preside at the Eucharist and preach homilies; that'll get you into heaps of strife. Bless the loving union of gay or divorced couples? Ouch. Wear ordinary clothes to celebrate Mass? That's it, you've done it now: the vestment police are at your door
 
Fundamentalists are so afraid of freedom. The deity they believe in is one whose morals are like any sociopathic despot's: toe its line, obey, don't commit a thought-crime or it will chuck you into a lake of fire for all eternity. Do these worshippers ever think how they would judge a human who was such a sadistic tyrant as this nightmarish torturer-god?
But for the majority of Catholics (only 13 per cent of us even bother to go to church these days), their God does not sit there devising horrible punishments and scourging the unbeliever, but is infinitely, unconditionally loving and kind. That's the God I can believe in. The one who understands failure, suffering and frailty. I hope the hierarchy of my church can rediscover the God of all creation, with the gentle son of a humble Jewish woman as our guide.
Juliette Hughes is a Melbourne writer.
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