no confession on ash wenesday?
#41
moneil Wrote:Actually Stevus, the schedules are imposed by the faithful who want to begin Lent by assisting at Holy Mass, or a Prayer Service, and receive blessed ashes.  The priests are doing it because it's what the people in their parish expect them to do.
I suppose teen-masses are allowed for the same reason. Popular demand does not necessarily equal the prudent course. It would be a good teaching moment for the priest to stress reconciliation with God sacramentally over mere blessed ashes. He could still certainly have two masses that day for ashes, but instead of the 3rd or 4th (!) ash service he should have confessions also.

 
Quote:The multiple times are readily justifiable by people's schedules: an early before work Mass, the usual daily Mass with the blue hair crowd (which no priest who has any consideration for either his physical or spiritual health would dare tamper with), a mid morning Mass for the parochial school, perhaps a noon Mass or service for folks on their lunch hour, an after work Mass.  In rual areas a priest may have 2 or 3 parishes or missions to attend to.  In many parishes, at least in the west, there may be Masses in other languages (Spanish and Vietnamese being the most common ~yeah, I know, many think it should just be in Latin, but the priests have to deal with current reality).  In many parishes, multiple services are required to accommodate the number of people, as they couldn't all fit in the Church at one time, as a previous poster mentioned.  Services are also held at nursing homes and retirement centers, for people who can't get out - it's one day a year, and it's important!

Hogwash. You would have a point if it were a day of obligation, but since it is not, your argument fails. I'm not sure if the priest is obliged to say any public massses on Ash Wednesday, but if so, then at most one. I'm not even opposed to a noon and evening "ash" mass. But to give out ashes 3-4 times and offering not one confession shows that we are so distracted with externals, we have our priorities flipped.


 
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#42
StevusMagnus Wrote:No confessions on Monday or Tuesday either anywhere around me.

That's a travesty. Thankfully, my pastor is available for confession pretty much any time he's on the parish grounds. Confession seems to be his second favourite thing to do, besides Mass.

But ideally, confessions would be available all day on Shrove Monday and Tuesday.
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#43
Carthusian Wrote:
StevusMagnus Wrote:Priests should be "busy" in the confessional to kick off the penitential season of Lent. Not off distributing ashes 4 times that day and cancelling confessions.


Ash Wednesday is one of those days that brings people to church who usually don't go.  The more Masses...the more collections.


The NO Ash Wednesday was the biggest turnout that I've ever seen in this particular suburban parish.  They did not take a collection at all.

By your reasoning, they missed out.
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#44
Carthusian Wrote:
StevusMagnus Wrote:One parish near me cancelled regularly scheduled Wednesday evening confessions for Ash Wednesday "services"!

There was an NO parish near me a few years ago that offered an "ecumenical Ash Wednesday" service!  They invited all Protestant denominations to come and get ashes.  How loving Satan can be. 

Heretics can receive ashes.  As can children who are under the age of their first communion.  As can unbaptized heathens.

How loving God can be.
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#45
StevusMagnus Wrote:
moneil Wrote:Actually Stevus, the schedules are imposed by the faithful who want to begin Lent by assisting at Holy Mass, or a Prayer Service, and receive blessed ashes.  The priests are doing it because it's what the people in their parish expect them to do.
...Popular demand does not necessarily equal the prudent course. It would be a good teaching moment for the priest to stress reconciliation with God sacramentally over mere blessed ashes...


 
Quote:The multiple times are readily justifiable by people's schedules: an early before work Mass, the usual daily Mass with the blue hair crowd (which no priest who has any consideration for either his physical or spiritual health would dare tamper with), a mid morning Mass for the parochial school, perhaps a noon Mass or service for folks on their lunch hour, an after work Mass.  In rural areas a priest may have 2 or 3 parishes or missions to attend to.  In many parishes, at least in the west, there may be Masses in other languages (Spanish and Vietnamese being the most common ~yeah, I know, many think it should just be in Latin, but the priests have to deal with current reality).  In many parishes, multiple services are required to accommodate the number of people, as they couldn't all fit in the Church at one time, as a previous poster mentioned.  Services are also held at nursing homes and retirement centers, for people who can't get out - it's one day a year, and it's important!

Hogwash. You would have a point if it were a day of obligation, but since it is not, your argument fails. I'm not sure if the priest is obliged to say any public Masses on Ash Wednesday, but if so, then at most one. I'm not even opposed to a noon and evening "ash" mass. But to give out ashes 3-4 times and offering not one confession shows that we are so distracted with externals, we have our priorities flipped.


I would imagine there is, if not a specific canonical or rubrical requirement, at the least a serious expectation that parishes would have Mass, or other services, and offer the imposition of blessed ashes, on Ash Wednesday.  The imposition of ashes was considered important enough that before VII, small churches and mission stations without a resident priest (I grew up rural environs after leaving the big city of Seattle at the tender age of 5-1/2) would offer the imposition of ashes after Mass on the first Sunday of Lent, to those who were unable to attend on Ash Wednesday.  I'm pretty sure there is no obligation for priests to have scheduled confessions on Ash Wednesday.  As you have pointed out several times, it is not a Holy Day of Obligation, and there is no requirement to attend Mass, receive ashes, or go to Confession.

This seems one of those straw man arguments you often rail against.  The Church, from time immemorial, has begun the Lenten Fast with the imposition of blessed ashes, and I cited the Catholic Encyclopedia on that topic - I wonder if you read the article?  Nowhere in the Catholic Encyclopedia article on Ash Wednesday, or on Lent, does it emphasis Confession as a particular practice for that day, or even the season - it does emphasis the imposition of ashes, and the beginning of fasting.  Likewise, I have no recollection that before the changes after VII, that Confession was THE way one began Lent - rather, one went to the Church for the imposition of Ashes, began the fast, and one would during Lent, prepare oneself to make a really good confession(s) during Lent - and that was a specific obligation for the Easter Duty.  I was around back then (DOB 06.28.51), I'm guessing you weren't.

So, the idea that the ideal way to begin Lent on Ash Wednesday is by the reception of the Sacrament of Confession, and that is what the Church should emphasis, and what parishes should give preference to over Holy Mass and the imposition blessed ashes, seems to be peculiar to you.  Not necessarily a bad concept, but it does seem to be a personal concept, rather than one rooted in the immemorial tradition of the Church.  Do you have any citations that show otherwise?

I'm suspect the vast majority, if not all, the churches in you fair city offered many scheduled opportunities for Confession on the weekend before Lent.  You certainly had the opportunity to schedule a Confession with a priest on Mon. Tues. or Wed., if you wanted.  Did you just figure out this year that Confession wasn't routinely scheduled on Ash Wednesday?  If you felt you had to go to Confession during that time, I'm sure you could have found a priest to hear it.  As HK posted, his parish priest is available to hear confessions whenever he is on the grounds, and most of the Ordinary Form priests I know up here in Washington are similarly accommodating.

If receiving the Sacrament of Penance on Ash Wednesday (or Shove Tuesday) would be especially meaningful for you, then, by all means make those arrangements - I'm sure that's very do able, especially in urban areas.  To expect parishes and churches to wrap their entire schedules around an individual's particular, personal understanding of how things should be, rather than focusing on the immemorial traditions of the Church in this regard, and accommodating the faithful with several opportunities in this regard, would seem, IMHO a case of "priorities flipped".  Someday, you may be old, infirm, and in bound, as perhaps I someday may be, and I think I'd be grateful that a priest made time to come to the nursing home or retirement center for Ash Wednesday services.

I didn't make it to Ash Wednesday services this year, but in many years of doing so the emphasis of the homily was generally on the opportunity the season of Lent offers for a renewal of our lives, and frequently the importance and power of the Sacrament of Reconciliation to that effect was mentioned (yes, this occurs even in Ordinary Form parishes).  In most parishes I'm familiar with, there is an extra special emphasis on this sacrament during Lent (and to anticipate what some here will say - yes, the Ordinary Form parishes should emphasis this sacrament more often throughout the year), and extra times, frequently on weekday evenings, with visiting priests, will be scheduled during Lent.

Now, I can appreciate your frustration, since this is really important to you - but to scold the Church for not discerning your personal, individual preference, and to ask it to not be as accommodating to the vast majority of the faithful by reducing the number of Ash Wednesday services, seems not the right approach.  I'd suggest you just make an appointment next year to start Lent in the manner you prefer.  You could also speak to your pastor, or area priests, and inquire about having Confessions scheduled - perhaps they have never been asked about that possibility.
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#46
Frankly, I'm impressed that there are Novus Ordo parishes that USUALLY have confession on Wednesday.

It's like pulling teeth to find one around me that doesn't limit their confession schedule to 45 minutes on Saturday afternoon.
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#47
WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote:Frankly, I'm impressed that there are Novus Ordo parishes that USUALLY have confession on Wednesday.

It's like pulling teeth to find one around me that doesn't limit their confession schedule to 45 minutes on Saturday afternoon.

I've been somewhat surprised to occassionally see comments on FE about Saturday confessions.  Maybe we were pequiliar in the northwest, but growing up pre-counciliar in the 50's and 60's, Saturdays were THE DAY for that sacrament.  One went to confession on Saturday and Mass on Sunday.  In big city churches, with mutiple priests, it was also customary to have a priest hear confessions on Sunday morning during the Mass of the Catechumens, but confessions had to end before the Mass of the Faithful began.  Another pre-counciliar custom generally gone by the way side was for a priest to hear confessions like 15 minutes before Mass.  This is frustrating for some people, but I can understand the reasoning - priests have said that to sit and worry about what time it is, how many might be still in line, needing to get done and start Mass on time, can be really distracting to properly administering the sacrament.  You are getting short changed in your territory though, if you only get 45 minutes on Saturday.  Almost every pairsh I know of up here schedules for at least an hour.  But anyways, it would seem that the current Ordinary Form custom of Saturday confessions is pretty traditional, at least in a 1950's kind of way.

I like having opportunities for week night Confessions, as I usually work on Saturdays, but yes, they are hard to find outside of Advent or Lent, in most parishes. 
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#48
StevusMagnus Wrote:
QuisUtDeus Wrote:A failure to prepare on our part does not constitute an emergency on the priest's part.  Catholics should be "busy" in the confessional all year long.
Catholics should be "busy" at mass all year long as well.

Your statement, while true, does not detract from my point.  Ash Wednesday is not a holy day of obligation, but it is an important day in the liturgical calendar that is not celebrated any other day of the year. 

Quote:
Quote:If they were, limited confession on Ash Wednesday wouldn't be a big deal.  Instead everyone who still hasn't fully apostasized goes "Oh crap, it's Lent" and tries to jam in there because they neglect going on a regular basis.

Speculation. "Limited"? Try none. What better way to start off the prime penitential season of Lent than with confession? I'm simply saying HAVE confessions. Offer them instead of 2 extra Masses on a day that is not obligatory to attend Mass. You are setting up the false proposition that it is either or.

None?  Are you being absolute in that statement?  Want to wager that there were Confessions available in Catholic churches on that day?

I didn't set up a false proposition that it is "either or".  I said limited Confessions and Ash Wednesday services.

However, you did make an "either or" proposition that is false.  Do you even read the arguments you make?

Quote:Priests should be "busy" in the confessional to kick off the penitential season of Lent. Not off distributing ashes 4 times that day and cancelling confessions.

You say: They should be in the confessional and NOT off distributing ashes and cancelling confessions.  Apparently in your mind they can't do both.

Quote:
Quote:Usually, there is plenty of opportunity for Confession during Lent. 

There's plenty of opportunity for Mass during Lent as well.

Irrelevant, plus Ash Wednesday services only happen on Ash Wednesday.  Confession can happen any day.

Quote:
Quote:You won't go to hell because you aren't in a state of Sanctifying Grace on Ash Wednesday.  You go to hell because you aren't in a state of Sanctifying Grace on any day of the year.  Which makes my point - the problem isn't priests giving Ashes as they should be doing; the problem is people not going to Confession regularly.

Nobody is arguing that Catholics shouldn't confess frequently. They shouyld go to Mass regularly too. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have zero masses on Ash Wednesday, just as it means we shouldn't have zero confessions on Ash Wednesday. The point is that the season of penance being kicked off with no penance and multiple distribution of sacramentals is wacky.

No one suggested zero confessions, but you did suggest they should not be holding Ash Wednesday services and holding confessions instead.

This is not a mere sacramental.  It is how the Church liturgically starts the Lenten season.  Would you reduce Good Friday services to this?  Would you argue priests should give up Good Friday services to hear confessions?

Actually, you probably would.  It fits right in with your other distorted view of Catholicism that require 1950's haircuts.

Quote:
Quote:Hey, if Ash Wednesday wakes people up, that's great.  But it doesn't mean the Church has to kiss our asses because we suddenly decided to get with the program.


Right. The Church doesn't have to kiss our asses by providing "Ash Wednesday" Catholics with 4 ash distribution services. Instead they should allow these Catholics the opportunity to get straight with God and come home and repent on Ash Wednesday through the sacrament of Penance. They need to get priorities straight. The apostates need confession before they need ashes.


The Church needs to get her priorities straight?  The arrogance is astounding.

Edit: fix quoting
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#49
moneil Wrote:
WhollyRoaminCatholic Wrote:Frankly, I'm impressed that there are Novus Ordo parishes that USUALLY have confession on Wednesday.

It's like pulling teeth to find one around me that doesn't limit their confession schedule to 45 minutes on Saturday afternoon.


I've been somewhat surprised to occassionally see comments on FE about Saturday confessions.  Maybe we were pequiliar in the northwest, but growing up pre-counciliar in the 50's and 60's, Saturdays were THE DAY for that sacrament.   

You weren't peculiar. That was the Pre-Vatican II custom in the Northeast and Midwest, too. (I'm from Connecticut and Ohio). In fact, the one thing that hasn't changed since Vatican II is the custom of Saturday confessions. Big difference in the number of people in line... but the priests are still there. Moneil, people will complain about anything.
 
- Lisa

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#50
QuisUtDeus Wrote:
StevusMagnus Wrote:Priests should be "busy" in the confessional to kick off the penitential season of Lent. Not off distributing ashes 4 times that day and cancelling confessions.

A failure to prepare on our part does not constitute an emergency on the priest's part.  Catholics should be "busy" in the confessional all year long.  If they were, limited confession on Ash Wednesday wouldn't be a big deal.  Instead everyone who still hasn't fully apostasized goes "Oh crap, it's Lent" and tries to jam in there because they neglect going on a regular basis.

Usually, there is plenty of opportunity for Confession during Lent.  You won't go to hell because you aren't in a state of Sanctifying Grace on Ash Wednesday.  You go to hell because you aren't in a state of Sanctifying Grace on any day of the year.  Which makes my point - the problem isn't priests giving Ashes as they should be doing; the problem is people not going to Confession regularly.

Hey, if Ash Wednesday wakes people up, that's great.  But it doesn't mean the Church has to kiss our asses because we suddenly decided to get with the program.


AMEN!!
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