A Question of Judgment: Pius XII and the Jews
#11
Wow, thanks HMiS - that's some good information. Very interesting...
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#12
The discussion during Joseph Lichten's days far less instrumentalized and biased by the 1967 Israeli-Arab War and the later Yom Kippur War and the Intifada.

[Image: Birkenau_Stab_2_1.jpg] 
[Image: Birkenau_Stab_2_2.jpg]

I confirm the reception of One parcel with food which you sent me.
Ido Ansgar
Adress: Work Camp Birkenau - East Upper Silesia, Official Building.

Dated: 14th November, 1944.
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#13
Another thing we're not told in the U.S. -- that the Red Cross sent food and medications to the concentration camps.  We heard a lot about Jews being made into lampshades and soap, though, "facts" which I have read are now discredited.  The truth about the atrocities should be told.  Of course Jews were killed but so were the disabled, Catholics, Roma, and members of other groups.  Are the non-Jewish victims remembered in Holocaust museums? 
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#14
 
Quote: Originally Posted by PaxVobiscum

Another thing we're not told in the U.S. -- that the Red Cross sent food and medications to the concentration camps.  We heard a lot about Jews being made into lampshades and soap, though, "facts" which I have read are now discredited. 

Oh they did. Now the story comes out. Do have a cite for this?

Quote:The truth about the atrocities should be told.   

Well, unfortunately they won't. Not as long as they control the media. You know the golden rule: He who has the gold makes the rules...? Ironically, the reciprocal of that is just as applicable. Take our country for instance. Need I continue?

Quote:
Of course Jews were killed but so were the disabled, Catholics, Roma, and members of other groups.  Are the non-Jewish victims remembered in Holocaust museums? 

Oh! You can't say that! That would make things look less than half as bad as they sound now. The Jews were the only ones who were persecuted. All you Catholics ever do is whine...


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#15
There is a huge discussion between Holocaust scholars, mostly Jewish, between Intentionalism (whether Hitler had wanted and decreed a plan to exterminate all Jews always) and Functionalism (whether the circumstances of war led to the de facto extermination of Jews, but was not initially wanted or decreed by Hitler). This proves that things are difficult.

While the Aktion Klostersturm (Action Monastery Attack) was ordered by Himmler in 1940, but ceased in late 1941 at the request of Hitler himself, and while the Aktion Gnadentod (Action Merciful Death or Euthanasia, T4-Programm) was clearly decreed by Hitler, who thereby himself ordered the mass murder in "silence" of over 80,000 German mentally handicapped and "genetically disordered" persons - including some by (not Zyklon-B but in carbonmonoxide) gas chambers, and others by phenol injections. There are no such decrees or explicit legal orders by Hitler, and not even by Himmler (although his controversially reported and interpreted Posen speeches seem to infer this view) on the "Jewish question".

Also, I have studied the Wannsee Protokolle (protocols of the Wannsee Conference - rather Wannsee Afternood) from early 1942, and they speak on forced labour leading to death of Jewish men, and about evacuation of Jewish civilians, about ghettos and sterilization of men and women in them, but they do not mention gas chambers, "extermination camps" (as if entire Auschwitz-Birkenau was for "extermination" which is patently false, it was constructed in 1941 when the Nazis were still contemplating the Madagaskar Plan).

Also, the gas chamber of the Dachau concentration camp (where Léon Blum, Jewish socialist prime minister of France and Kurt von Schussnig and others were imprisoned, where thousands of Polish clergymen were detained and died, where the saintly (Dutch-Frisian) Carmelite priest and anti-Nazi resistance professor Titus Brandsma succumbed to fleck typhus) was clearly never used, or even a reconstructed fake by the United States troops. Yet, it was used in Nuremberg. Even though in his last years even Simon Wiesenthal, the Nazi hunter, admitted it was never in use at least.

There are so many anomalies in this question.

The fact is that e.g. St. Maksymilian Kolbe was killed in the special isolation cell prison inside the huge concentration camp Auschwitz-Birkenau, and that Anne Frank never returned and was killed by deliberate deportation and letting-die of her, in March 1945. Remember this.

The National-Socialist dictatorship was criminal in many aspects.

Anyway, I will not abuse it to polish up or justify the (sometimes more massive, or far more massive) crimes of Marxism (not only Soviet Union) and other ideologies.

And while I maybe not against Jewish settlement in Eretz Israel at all, I think Gaza equals a ghetto.

The precise details and number of Jewish casualties will be discussed and revealed and precised in near future, I think.

Our duty is to witness to God's love. Also for the unbelieving Jews, who must convert to their Messiah, Jesus Christ.

Nothing more, nothing less.

If Christ was an "antisemite" by modern politically correct standards, I am "antisemitic" too. But there is no need to reduce the criminality of Nazi crimes. Or of Communist crimes.

Of course Catholic Church and European Christendom and European history are victims of historical propaganda and false propaganda lies. But even these are being corrected. As on the Inquisition and Crusades.

Time will tell. The lie will not prevail. That is why anti-Catholicism and (true) antisemitism will be crushed.
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#16
I was wondering as to why the pope did not excommunicate Hitler? Was it because he was afraid it would provoke him?
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