Historical revisionism is not unknown in Catholic circles
#21

No - they are anti-Catholic, and they need to be preached against.

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Not in the US in the US there just a mens club. My Friend is Catholic and a Mason which I realize doesn't work(he is always trying to get me to join) I know this guy very well if his mason buds ever did anything anti-catholic he'd quit that much I am sure of. Not that I am pro Mason but I dont think in the US the Masons are any kind of a threat anymore. Now in Italy and France and Mexico probably they are still involved in politics there but in the US they just dress up funny and make money for childrens hospitals. As someone else said I think they are especialy the Catholics who are Masons oblivious to their past political machinations. But then again Mozart and the only Catholic signer of the decleration of independance were Masons so who knows. It seems to me that Catholics have been ignoring the Papal no-no's on Freemasonry since the beginning. I had to do a paper on the American revolution and of course that brought up lots of freemason stuff as it was freemasonry that pretty much fueled the American revolution fire, and I got interested in the masons so I did some reseach and was amazed at how many Catholics throughout history have been Masons. You just take mozart he was very active in his lodge he wrote dozens of "masonic music" pieces but was also a very devout Catholic who rejoiced when Voltaire died calling him the beast. (Who incidently was a lapsed Catholic and a fellow Freemason). I think before we condemn individuals they need to be taken on a case to case basis. Garibaldi, Bolivar, Hannibal Bugnini etc bad guys. Mozart, John Carroll and George Washington not so bad.
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#22
Robb Wrote:
Telemaque Wrote:
Mhoram Wrote:
Robhaidheuch Wrote:Most priests would say they have no interest or concern with Freemasonry.  I have never heard a single homily in which the danger of Freemasonry was mentioned.  I think it's a taboo subject, as the existence of hell seems to be.
I'm not sure it's taboo so much as just not considered.  Around here, most people think of Masons as just another men's group, no more sinister than the Elks or Lion's Club.  If a priest started going after Masons in a homily, people would look at him like he was expounding on the evils of Waffle House.

The Elk's and Lion's are also anti-Catholic. Freemasons definitely interfere with the operations of the Church. It's a completely taboo subject.

Anyway, at the very least Catholic priests should warn that Freemasons are excommunicated.



How are the Elks and Lions clubs anti Catholic?  I know some practicing Catholics who are Lions and I've never heard them say anything about this supposed anti Catholic prejudice.

Bob

None of them speak of it openly not even the Masons. If it even exists besides the events in Italy and central America I don't think all masons are anti catholic. What they believe metephisicaly(spell) doesnt jive with Church doctrine but I dont think all Freemasons are out to destroy the Church. Then again some probably are Hannible Bugnini did a great job at destroying the Mass.
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#23
This is my theory of how things work. Masons are not allowed to talk religion or politics in the lodge, so during the lodge meeting nothing is done against the Church but after lodge there is nothing stopping the anti-Catholics for going out for a beer and trying to start waves. From my research this is how things have happened. Those that go into freemasonry wanting to just play dress up thats all they do but those that want to use it as a gathering to find other like minded people be it to start a charity or to destroy the Mass like Bugnini do that.
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#24
SaintSebastian Wrote:There's more than enough non-Masons openly working against truth and goodness without wasting their time organizing pancake breakfasts and driving around in go-carts.

Thats a good point. I am much more afraid of Kardinal Kasper Hans Kung Mahony Cardinal Schoenborn the USCCB than I am a bunch of goof offs in go carts wearing fezs and trying to raise money for hospitals.
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#25
SaintSebastian Wrote:The Shriners are a subsidiary of the Freemasons--all Shriners must be Freemasons.

Thats true there are three branches of Freemasonry The Scottish rite, The Shriners and The York rite wich excepts only Christians (this is what most Catholics join). Though from what I have seen the Shriners in their go-carts are the most "out there" publicaly. Its hard to miss a Shriner. We have them all over my town.
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#26
Credo Wrote:You want some real history that's unknown, read about the Cristero rebellion of the 1920s.

A virtual crusade (though not a technical crusade) happened in Mexico in the last century. This is an verboten subject in Mexico and the United States. In Mexico the Masonic government ultimately won against the Christian forces (the Cristeros would have undoubtedly won had they been given a free hand), and so the Cristero Wars are forbidden to be taught in schools. In the Protestant United States, the US government and the America Catholic bishops worked together to undermine the Catholic rebellions. The Vatican and the American bishops told the Cristeros to lay down their arms. They did. Whereupon the Masons came in and massacred all of them. This is one of the best examples of backroom tretchery in modern times, and it's never taught in schools, neither government nor diocesan.

It was only last month that I read, for the first time, about the Cristero War -- very gripping.  Has this event in history ever received fictional treatment?  A novel, a Western film, etc.?  (Would make a good Mel Gibson movie.) 
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#27
There's revisionism and revisionism. Some of it is genuine recovery of truth, and is usuaally pretty easily proven, and some of it is an obviously narrow and short-sighted manipulation of the truth that serves an agenda. It takes a while for any histoical argument to stand up or be cast off by people who genuinely care about historical truth. I'd say that the Holocaust is in this category - it needs to be looked at from all angles and with all arguments given fair treatment until the historical truth emerges. That probably won't happen any time soon, but it remains an important subject.
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#28
Baskerville Wrote:
SaintSebastian Wrote:There's more than enough non-Masons openly working against truth and goodness without wasting their time organizing pancake breakfasts and driving around in go-carts.

Thats a good point. I am much more afraid of Kardinal Kasper Hans Kung Mahony Cardinal Schoenborn the USCCB than I am a bunch of goof offs in go carts wearing fezs and trying to raise money for hospitals.

Yes, well, the fact that there are bad bishops doesn't mean that the Freemasons are not enemies of the Church. On the contrary the bad bishops collaborate with the Freemasons (as in this diocese) - that is one of the ways in which they betray the Church.

Let me just say I've spoken to a priest (he was a deacon at the time) who had to be interviewed by that Joseph Wicker character. He had a very negative impression of him. And this is the man two dioceses (Cincinnati and Covington) used to screen who was fit to be a seminarian - turning away more men than he approved, and especially turning away those who were not liberals. The priest I spoke to had no idea that the man belonged to anti-Christian societies condemned by the Church. I know the Freemasons also proselytize on Catholic property, when I was a boy I saw a leaflet for Rosicrucianism (having no idea what it was) dropped near my car in the Church parking lot. The Church I'm speaking of is a Dominican priory that houses first year seminarians.

I agree enemies outside the Church are not as dangerous as enemies in the Church. But when the enemies outside the Church are the inspiration and allies of the enemies inside the Church, then I don't make excuses for them. If the bishops believed Freemasonry was an enemy they wouldn't be letting them decide who is fit to be a priest! Now Leo XIII told us clearly, without distinguishing among the American, English, and Continental Freemasons - Freemasons seek the destruction of our Church.

Don't pretend that all they do is dress up as clowns and raise money for hospitals which give out morning after pills:

http://www.thechildrenshospital.org/well...ption.aspx

They're enemies of the Church.


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