Vatican Prelate: Doctors who performed abortion on 9-year-old did not deserve excommunication
#11
If the pregnency itself is the danger, a premature delivery is the only way to save both. For babies that are too undeveloped to survive, the inescapable effect is their death, but it is not a deliberate killing of them even though it is forseen. 
Killing them directly because they won't survive is not permissable.
Reply
#12
What about ectopic pregnancy?

Would Catholic moral teaching allow one to abort a baby that is developing within the Fallopian tube that will almost certainly kill both the mother and the child unless the child is killed?
Reply
#13
No, not directly. But the fallopian tube can be removed even though this will mean the indirect death of the child. Principle of Double Effect: committing a act for a good end that will inevitably have a bad end as well.
Reply
#14
antimodernist Wrote:
Bonifacius Wrote:No, an abortion is not permitted to save a mother's life.  In order for double effect to apply, the death of the child must be indirect.  You may remove a cancerous uterus even if the mother is pregnant.  You weren't trying to kill the child, but to solve an unrelated problem.  In this case, the problem precisely was the pregnancy.  The "solution," from what I gather (though I don't know for sure, obviously), was to directly kill the children.  You may not go into the uterus and directly kill the child in order to save the mother.  You may not directly kill innocent person X to save innocent person Y. 

If we are speaking of direct abortion, it does not matter whether the child was going to die anyway (though that is relevant in legitimate instances of double effect).  Because someone is going to die naturally in two weeks, we may not butcher him now on our own.

Makes perfect sense.

If conception takes place in the fallopian tube then the child can legitimately be removed as it is a medical condition that will kill the mother, same as a cancerous uterus.  It seems very unlikely that a nine year old could carry twins to full term and deliver babies.  It's a very hard call, and I would suggest the Catholic doctor's decision was taken in good conscience.  Only God can judge this particular case.  Maybe I'm wrong, but as far as I am aware in cases where doctors have given no hope for survival of the mother in a continuing pregnancy the Church has acknowledged  a mother's choice to survive for the sake of the welfare of any other children she may have.
Reply
#15
No matter what, she can't DIRECTLY cause an abortion.
Reply
#16
Quote:It seems very unlikely that a nine year old could carry twins to full term and deliver babies.
Rob,
The youngest mother was 5 years old at her child's birth. When a girl is ready to become pregnant, her body goes through certain changes to prepare her for bearing children.

I am not saying that this child would not have had any problems, but it does seem that she was not in imminent danger. Had the abortion not been performed, it might be that she could have carried the babies until they were old enough to survive being delivered by c-section. The earliest gestational age at which a baby has survived is currently 22 weeks.

Quote: It's a very hard call, and I would suggest the Catholic doctor's decision was taken in good conscience. Only God can judge this particular case.
The Church teaches that abortion is always and everywhere wrong. You cannot kill a baby, born or unborn.

Quote:Maybe I'm wrong, but as far as I am aware in cases where doctors have given no hope for survival of the mother in a continuing pregnancy the Church has acknowledged a mother's choice to survive for the sake of the welfare of any other children she may have.
Yes, you are wrong. What is moral is to treat the mother's condition even if it is known that the child will not be able to survive the treatment; however, it is totally wrong to directly kill the child to save the life of the mother.

So take the case of ectopic pregnancy, where the baby ends up in the Fallopian tube rather than in the womb. The Fallopian tube may be removed, knowing that the baby will not be able to survive that.

However, there is now apparently a new treatment which involves sending chemicals to kill the baby. This is unacceptable as what is happening is not that the mother's condition is being treated but that the "treatment" consists of the killing of the baby.
Reply
#17
Quote:The Vatican teaches that anyone performing or helping someone to have an abortion is automatically excommunicated from the church, and the Vatican prelate underlined that abortion is "always condemned by moral law as an intrinsically evil act." "There wasn't any need, we contend, for so much urgency and publicity in declaring something that happens automatically," Fisichella wrote.
This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard.  Why announce an excommunication?  Perhaps because it lets the guilty party know they've committed a grave sin, and must seek repentance?
I really wish someone would ask this bishop what he thought about John Paul II's decision to publish Ecclesia Dei...

Reply
#18
I don't think "selective reduction" falls under the principle of double effect.  Unless they gave the girl a hysterectomy (which I doubt), then the excommunication would probably be valid.

Church law does not have "rape and incest" exceptions...

Reply
#19
No matter what happens in the end, the girl is a victim for whom we should pray.
Reply
#20
Quote:....Although doctors at the hospital where the girl was initially admitted, Imip, reportedly said that her life was not in danger, her mother reportedly transferred her to another hospital, Cisam, that was willing to do the abortion, which is not penalized under Brazilian law because the girl was raped.

....However, an attorney for the Archdiocese, who was preparing to file a motion to stop the abortion when word came that it had already been done, told the media that "various specialists from Imip, which is a major hospital, say that she didn't have a risk of dying. They could have waited longer."

Source

The mother was shopping for an abortion.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)