Vatican Prelate: Doctors who performed abortion on 9-year-old did not deserve excommunication
#21
And, O'Neill, from the sounds of it the girl was also victimized by her mother and the doctors, who committed murder and incurred an automatic excommunication. 

If someone induces labor knowing full well that it will kill the child, then that is abortion, by definition.  It is not moral, as it perverts the natural inclination for a mother to sacrifice herself rather than her child.  This is true even if the child were, short of a miracle, doomed to die anyway. 
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#22
Munda_cor_meum Wrote:.
I forgot which prophecy it was, but Our Lady said something like "Rome will become the seat of Antichrist." It's well on the way, judging by this.
It started in the 60's.
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#23
I'm stunned not only at the evil statements of the Bishop, but at the ignorance here even among traditional Catholics.

One of the most fundamental laws of moral theology is that you cannot commit an intrinsic evil, even for the gravest of reasons. Without this law, all of Catholic moral teaching falls apart. It seems that some are perfectly willing to see this happen.


I'm sickened.

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#24
The postings have clarified the event for me, thankyou.  I now see I was lacking in knowledge of the morality of this particular issue.
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#25
Baskerville Wrote:
Munda_cor_meum Wrote:.
I forgot which prophecy it was, but Our Lady said something like "Rome will become the seat of Antichrist." It's well on the way, judging by this.
It started in the 60's.

I reckon the Seat of the Antichrist will need to be reupholstered if this ghastly situation carries on for much longer.  He seems to have been sitting in it as long as I've been alive.
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#26
Dauphin Wrote:I'm stunned not only at the evil statements of the Bishop, but at the ignorance here even among traditional Catholics.

One of the most fundamental laws of moral theology is that you cannot commit an intrinsic evil, even for the gravest of reasons. Without this law, all of Catholic moral teaching falls apart. It seems that some are perfectly willing to see this happen.


I'm sickened.

I agree, it is troubling that people feel able to post on issues they are so obviously ignorant about.  Worringly, they don't appear to acknowledge or understand just how ignorant they are.  They wouldn't rewire their house or change their gas fittings for fear of injuring themselves, yet they'll post their ideas about moral theology on a global forum without so much as a by-your-leave.

We live in a make-it-up-as-you-go-along world now.  Bernie Madoff just makes up his financial reports, politicians just say whatever is convenient for that day and many Catholics just seem to invent their own moral theology to fit their opinions.
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#27
When I start to see high prelates refuse to unequivocally condemn abortion, then I know they are apostates.

It is truly unbelievable that the bishop responsible for the excommunications is being hung out to dry.

I'd warn all Catholics - following any prelate who collaborates with abortion is betraying the Lord.
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#28
Quote:
Maybe I'm wrong, but as far as I am aware in cases where doctors have given no hope for survival of the mother in a continuing pregnancy the Church has acknowledged a mother's choice to survive for the sake of the welfare of any other children she may have.

The greatest virtue is to give one's life for another.  Christ Himself said that.  A mother's thought is and should be, "please let my baby live."   I'm not sure the Church has ever declared or "acknowledged that a mother's choice is to survive for the sake of having other children." That's to speculate the unknown.  Also, there's the word "choice."


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#29
I think the statement made towards the beginning of this thread makes more sense than anything.  Most of the information coming out of this situation thus far has been provided by the major media, who are notorious for skewing the facts in just about everything they report.  We don't truly know the circumstances about what happened and we certainly don't know the full influence of the church, the doctors, or the mother.  Perhaps (and this is just a suggestion) we should fall back upon the rule of charity and let God his church be the ultimate judge here.  Whatever happens, the souls of the babies are where they will be by whatever mercy of God and the doctors and the mother ultimately have God to answer to in this situation.
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#30
He's right, they don't deserve to be excommunicated.

Perhaps drawn-and-quartered, racked or something infinitely more painful and time consuming, maybe ... but excommunication would not tweak their consciences or get their attention as much as a red-hot poker.
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