Licit to attend weekly NO Masses with abuses?
#11
Let's get back on topic, I didn't intend for the thread to go this way. Tradmaverick I'll send you a PM later, because I would like to discuss this further with you.
Reply
#12
(04-17-2009, 09:19 PM)tradmaverick Wrote: Like trying to bail out the Titanic with a saucepan!
The reform of the reform is as much a sinking ship as the original. And besides how many are actually going to say the New translations? I cant imagine my Parish Priest doing it! ha -he'll laugh it off - if he even gives it that much thought!

Even if everybody accepted it would that then solve all the problems attached to the News Mass? Would it counter every argument made by its opposition?

Nothing is done quickly in the Church. Some serious issues took hundreds of years to resolve in the past. The current Church's plight are directly tied to the hippies of the 60's. Return to Orthodoxy is inevitable and although it won't be overnight, it will happen quite quickly. Already, people are using those new English translations and I have heard them as well. The use of the Latin mass is also rising.
Reply
#13
It depends on how much the abuses bother you.  If you can tune them out and concentrate on the Mass, then I would say go.  If it's a distraction to the point where you focus on the abuses instead of the Mass, then you should probably stay away.  It's different with every individual.  After some of the abuses I've seen, a glass chalice and EMHCs would be relatively minor, so I could tolerate it.
Reply
#14
My apologies my friend, It wasnt my intention to take it off topic. :tiphat:
Reply
#15
NonSumDignus Wrote:To me the Sacred Species (I forgot to add the Sacred Hosts are kept in glass too) deserve proper vessels. I may not be well versed as many on here about liturgical matters, but to me that seems kind of big.

And I have talked to the priest about it, but he only said "The Bishop does it." Can't really get much more out of him than that.

It is a legitimate concern. The question is: do you wish to withdraw yourself from available Graces because of somebody elses screw-up?
Reply
#16
[

It is a legitimate concern. The question is: do you wish to withdraw yourself from available Graces because of somebody elses screw-up?
[/quote]


beautifully written - if there is not blatant disregard for the Mass, and an available priest to distribute the Eucharist, I would say go.

The grace that you would receive from attending the Mass would far outweigh minor abuses.... more glaringly disrespectful ones would make me think twice.


Reply
#17
(04-17-2009, 08:52 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(04-17-2009, 08:18 PM)NonSumDignus Wrote: And I have talked to the priest about it, but he only said "The Bishop does it." Can't really get much more out of him than that.

I looked it up and newadvent says:

Quote:According to the existing law of the Church the chalice, or at least the cup of it, must be made either of gold or of silver, and in the latter case the bowl must be gilt on the inside. In circumstances of great poverty or in time of persecution a calix stanneus (pewter) may be permitted, but the bowl of this also, like the upper surface of the paten, must be gilt. Before the chalice and paten are used in the Sacrifice of the Mass they require consecration. This rite is carried out according to a form specially provided in the "Pontificale" and involving the use of holy chrism. The consecration must be performed by a bishop (or in the case of chalices intended for monastic use, by an abbot possessing the privilege), and a bishop cannot in an ordinary way delegate any priest to perform this function in his place. Further, if the chalice lose its consecration -- which happens for example if it be broken or the cup perforated, or even if it has had to be sent to have the bowl regilded—it is necessary that it should be reconsecrated by the bishop before it can again be used. Strictly speaking, only priests and deacons are permitted to touch the chalice or paten, but leave is usually granted to sacristans and those officially appointed to take charge of the vestments and sacred vessels.

I do not know where this law is defined, but if you find that and present it to the people involved, they will not be able to claim ignorance. If they continue to knowlingly break the law, I would assume they reject the authority of the Church and as such should be avoided except in emergencies.

I think that was changed post-V2.  I seem to recall they require "fitting" vessels, but they don't have to be gilt or consecrated....

Either way, glass Kool-Aid pitchers for the Precious Blood don't seem to cut it.
Reply
#18
If there is outright sacrilege - such as abuse of the Blessed Sacrament, it is my opinion that we are morally obligated to not go and also to write the Bishop.  If he does nothing, that's his problem.  Same with an invalid Mass where the priest doesn't use the appropriate words of Consecration - I don't mean "for all" I mean he makes stuff up.

If there is heresy preached from the pulpit, same thing.  We're obligated (IMO) not to go and to write the bishop.

If there is disrespect for the Mass or the Lord in the Real Presence, I personally would not go.  That would be things such as  liturgical dance or the priest winging certain prayers or the infamous "Clown Mass".  Basically a clear disregard for the rubrics and/or the solemnity of the Mass.

Disclaimer:  These are my opinions and it is not my intent to morally bind anyone to them or claim they are de fide teachings or Canon Law.

Reply
#19
(04-17-2009, 07:30 PM)Credo Wrote: Go.

As such things go, those abuses seem rather minor. It would be a shame to withdraw yourself form the daily assembly those reasons. You may wish to bring your concerns to the priest after a few years, once you get to know the man.

Yeah, go get your cookie with credo. And all the while you can enraged your faith and that of those around you (what a bonus!).

You would be best to never set foot in a NO fellowship or attend an NO fellowship service.  Only a Novus Ordinarian like Credo would suggest it.  I mean if you want to attend a pro service you might as well find one of the older variety where the folks are more fun to be around.  After all, it's about fellowship.
Reply
#20
(04-18-2009, 01:17 AM)QuisUtDeus Wrote:
(04-17-2009, 08:52 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(04-17-2009, 08:18 PM)NonSumDignus Wrote: And I have talked to the priest about it, but he only said "The Bishop does it." Can't really get much more out of him than that.

I looked it up and newadvent says:

Quote:According to the existing law of the Church the chalice, or at least the cup of it, must be made either of gold or of silver, and in the latter case the bowl must be gilt on the inside. In circumstances of great poverty or in time of persecution a calix stanneus (pewter) may be permitted, but the bowl of this also, like the upper surface of the paten, must be gilt. Before the chalice and paten are used in the Sacrifice of the Mass they require consecration. This rite is carried out according to a form specially provided in the "Pontificale" and involving the use of holy chrism. The consecration must be performed by a bishop (or in the case of chalices intended for monastic use, by an abbot possessing the privilege), and a bishop cannot in an ordinary way delegate any priest to perform this function in his place. Further, if the chalice lose its consecration -- which happens for example if it be broken or the cup perforated, or even if it has had to be sent to have the bowl regilded—it is necessary that it should be reconsecrated by the bishop before it can again be used. Strictly speaking, only priests and deacons are permitted to touch the chalice or paten, but leave is usually granted to sacristans and those officially appointed to take charge of the vestments and sacred vessels.

I do not know where this law is defined, but if you find that and present it to the people involved, they will not be able to claim ignorance. If they continue to knowlingly break the law, I would assume they reject the authority of the Church and as such should be avoided except in emergencies.

I think that was changed post-V2.  I seem to recall they require "fitting" vessels, but they don't have to be gilt or consecrated....

Either way, glass Kool-Aid pitchers for the Precious Blood don't seem to cut it.

I remember a teacher from the Catholic school "Our Lady of Fatima" back in the late 1980's to early 1990's relating a story about her experience in the day-care center. They were getting ready to have Mass and "Fr. Jim" couldn't find a chalice to use so a number of the mothers came running to the day care and asked this teacher to help them look for a plastic "sippy" cup to use from the cabinet. She recalled the remorse she felt as she stood among all the mothers frantically searching for a something -anything- to hold the Precious Blood of Our Saviour. They couldn't understand why she refused to help them.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)