Licit to attend weekly NO Masses with abuses?
(04-17-2009, 08:18 PM)NonSumDignus Wrote: I've read those critiques, but I'm not sold on them. I've been to some NO Masses that were quite edifying- the Roman Canon, all the proper vestments (including maniples and chalice veils), Latin, Communion kneeling and on the tongue, only distributed by priests, etc. It didn't seem much different than an organically developed TLM.  I think the prayers of the TLM are superior (especially the Offertory), but I don't see anything in the New Mass that is inherently bad if celebrated in an orthodox fashion.

I understand what youre saying, believe me I do, I spent a number of months in a religous order in the U.S that say the New Mass in such a fashion. Very reverent, in Latin, facing the altar, very carefully and with the best of intentions.
But if you do not see a problem with the New Mass then you have not read these critiques properly.

"[i][i][i]And of the causes, moreover, not a single word is said. The explicit mention of the purpose of the sacrificial offering, made in the old rite with the prayer "Receive, Most Holy Trinity, This Oblation," has been suppressed--and replaced with *nothing.* The change in the formula reveals the change in doctrine[/i][/i][/i]." - the ottaviani intervention

"Finally, it is impossible to ignore how ritual gestures and usages expressing faith in the Real Presence have been abolished or changed. The Novus Ordo eliminates:

- Genuflections. No more than three remain for the priest, and (with certain exceptions) one of the faithful at the moment of the Consecration
- Purification of the priest's fingers over the chalice
- Preserving the priest's fingers from all profane contact after the Consecration
- Purification of sacred vessels, which need not be done immediately nor made on the corporal
- Protecting the contents of the chalice with the pall
- Gilding for the interior of sacred vessels
- Solemn consecration for movable altars
- Consecrated stones and relics of the saints in the movable altar or on the "table" when Mass is celebrated outside a sacred place. (The latter leads straight to "eucharistic dinners" in private houses.)
- Three cloths on the altar--reduced to one
- Thanksgiving for the Eucharist made kneeling, now replaced by the grotesque practice of the priest and people sitting to make their thanksgiving--a logical enough accompaniment to receiving Communion standing.
- All the ancient prescriptions observed in the case of a host which fell, which are now reduced to a single, nearly sarcastic direction: "It is to be picked up reverently." (*18)
All these suppressions only emphasize how outrageously faith in the dogma of the Real Presence is implicitly repudiated.
" - - the ottaviani intervention

"The Novus Ordo's Eucharistic Prayer III addresses the following prayers to the Lord:

    From age to age you gather a people to yourself, *so that* from east to west a perfect offering may be made to the glory of your name.

The "so that" in the passage makes it appear that the people, rather than the priest, are the indispensable element in the celebration.
Since it is never made clear, even here, who offers the sacrifice, the people themselves appear as possessing autonomous priestly powers. (*35) From this step, it would not be surprising if, before long, the people were permitted to join with the priest if pronouncing the words of Consecration. Indeed, in some places this has already happened.
" - the ottaviani intervention

Look I could quote it all day, but at the end of the day, the point would still be the same,
I came to the conclusion that the problem wasnt just mainly the vestments, the language, the external signs(not speaking about gestures), that were the cause of the crisis, or the reason why it was impermissible to attend the Novus Ordo, it was the doctrine, the doctrinal problems, as a famous apologist said, 'at the heart New Mass there is a lie', referring the change in Our Blessed Lords words, from 'many' to 'all' (Im sure you know the argument I wont insult you by going on about it). The so called 'smells and bells' can be fooling to people, because their very purpose is to elevate the mind and heart to God in prayer, thus fooling the person (who probably cant speak Latin fluently) into ignoring the prayers (or lack thereof) of the New Mass. What matters is the faith.

So I would invite you (I dont necessarily mean here, its up to you), to dissect these critiques, and if you can - through logical means, using theological arguments, refute the points made by these venerable authors, then by all mean attend the New Mass, but to my knowledge there is not one work that can hit point for point any of these critiques.

Im only trying to help friend, so please dont take my comments to be condemnative or putting you down, you put me to shame with your pious aspirations to adore the blessed Lord in the Eucharist. Please pray that I may have even a part of your devotion!

God Bless

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Re: Licit to attend weekly NO Masses with abuses? - by tradmaverick - 04-17-2009, 08:52 PM

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