Licit to attend weekly NO Masses with abuses?
#27
(04-22-2009, 02:07 PM)CarmeliteAtHeart Wrote:
(04-17-2009, 07:44 PM)tradmaverick Wrote: I understand you believe certain things about the New Mass, and I want to say something to you in charity and with the fullest respect for you and youre very commendable desire to receive the Eucharist daily, I think you should do a bit of reading into the New Mass, try googling the Ottaviani Intervention, or read the book the Great sacrilege, or anything by Michael Davies on the New Mass. There is plenty of evidence available to show that not only is the New Mass illicit, but it is immoral, and is indeed is a sin to attend it. It is not so much a matter of the abuses that (do indeed) go on during a new mass, it is the prayers of the New Mass itself (and the lack therof).

Again I dont mean to offend or cause a fight or something heated, but in fraternal charity and with the greatest respect for you I have to point that out.

God bless
Tradmav

I've read the Ottaviani Intervention and while I agree with the points made in the study, I do not recall the study ever saying the new liturgy is illicit or immoral or a sin to attend. Can you point me to where Ottaviani's study stated these conclusions? I'm not asking about Davies or others. I am asking about Cardinal Ottaviani's study. The points in the study are valid and reveal why the New Mass is not as fitting and some of the prayers emphasis secondary aspects of the reality of the Sacrament while downplaying the primary aspects but I cannot remember it concluding to attend is immoral or a sin or that the liturgy is/would be illicit.

Your view, dear brother, is not the view of the Church and while the New Mass is indeed inferior, it is extreme to say it is immoral or a sin.

My perspective is that I attempt to find the best New Mass I can attend during the week. The Oratory here has a pretty good one that I can endure. Look around, find a more solemn and better New Mass to attend. There has to be some better option for you.

Pax Christi tecum.

Firstly in response to your question for references in the critique that states that it is sinful to attend the New Mass. I have underlined for effect and emphasis.



1 We have limited ourselves above to a short study of the Novus Ordo where it deviates most seriously from the theology of the Catholic Mass. Our observations touch upon deviations which are typical. To prepare a complete study of all the pitfalls, dangers, and psychologically and spiritually destructive elements the new rite contains, whether in texts, rubrics, or instructions, would be a vast undertaking.

2 It is obvious that the New Order of Mass has no intention of presenting the Faith taught by the Council of Trent. But it is to this Faith that the Catholic conscience is bound forever. Thus, with the promulgation of the New Order of Mass, the true Catholic is faced with a tragic need to choose. (most important reference)

3 St. Pius V had the Roman Missal drawn up (as the present Apostolic Constitution now recalls) as an instrument of unity among Catholics. In conformity with the injunctions of the Council of Trent, the Missal was to exclude all dangers, either to liturgical worship or to the faith itself, then threatened by the Protestant Revolt. The grave situation fully justified--and even rendered prophetic--the saintly Pontiff's solemn warning given in 1570 at the end of the Bull promulgating his Missal:

    "Should anyone presume to tamper with this, let him know that he shall incur the wrath of God Almighty and His holy Apostles Peter and Paul".

(Easily extended to anyone who participates in this 'tampering' with full knowledge of how dangerous it is!!)


....Clearly if you participate in "pitfalls, dangers, and psychologically and spiritually destructive elements the new rite contains"  -youre hardly doing something good are you? Whilst the word sin is not said, it doesnt take a genius to figure out the implication!! Ive underlined the most important reference about the need to choose. Funny how they didnt say what you have to choose  -they implied it!!

As to what you said above "Your view, dear brother, is not the view of the Church", clearly it is not the view of the institutional Church or rather certain members of the Church, including to but not limited to modernists.

But is most certainly the view of the spotless bride of Christ - eternal Rome, the Church of Christ, her infallible teachings and definitions and most importantly very much the mind of St.Pius V and his quo primum.


Anyways I apologize if I am hijacking the thread and I will post no more on this issue(PM me if you want to debate more or as Quis said take it to the theological debate section, its not really fair to take this guys topic over - i have an awful habit of doing that!), im not judging anyone or their subjective opinons, Im merely responding to a question asked and I do not intend any offense whatsoever, these are my opinions and they just so happen to be the opinions of the good Cardinals Ottaviani and Bacci, as well as the opinions of many traditionalist, including but again not limited to the Society of St.Pius X.
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Re: Licit to attend weekly NO Masses with abuses? - by tradmaverick - 04-22-2009, 05:55 PM



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