Licit to attend weekly NO Masses with abuses?
#86
(04-24-2009, 08:00 PM)tradmaverick Wrote: Well theres no need to be sarcastic, i presume your referring to a post i made, where i cited the credentials of the author of my way of life?

The burden is on you to prove using theological reasons.....not feelings....or emotions....or statements without any evidence or poof that going to the Novus Ordo is permissible. After all you have just advised somebody to do so (a fact btw that wont stand to your benefit if your wrong!)
"Go to the NO without any fear,"

I might remind you, friend, that it won't stand to your benefit if you are wrong in advising someone not to attend a validly promulgated Rite of the Church.

(04-24-2009, 08:00 PM)tradmaverick Wrote: What has the gates of hell not prevailing against the Church got to do with anything? Is that really using your head? Have you totally forgotten about the other arguments made?

Am i to assume you mean by this that if the New Mass is wrong then the gates of hell have already prevailed against the Church?
Surely you know your basic catechism, surely you read above the quote:

"The reason for this power of survival lies, not in the Church’s juridical elements, but in the indestructibility conferred upon her by the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit and of Christ himself. The visible hierarchy, the elaborate Church organization, being inseparable from human imperfections, though a part of Our Lord’s plan from the beginning, have not in themselves the stuff of immortality. This they derive from the sources of grace and divine life within, the hidden riches of the Mystical Body which constitute the veritable "mystery of the Church.""

or this one:

   "The intrinsic reason for the indefectibility of the Church of Christ lies in her inner relation with Christ, who is the Foundation of the Church (I Cor 3:11) and with the Holy Ghost, who dwells in her as essence and life-principle."

Abuse of Papal authority does not constitute the 'gates of hell prevailing against the Church'.

Therefore with your reason, with your intellect, your proof does not suffice.
So if youre head tells you that the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church - thats very good, its a good thing to think about - buts its got nothing to do with the Novus Ordo being right or wrong - and more importantly the Roman Mass being the true Mass and the only Mass we are obliged to attend.

I can document trawl too.  c.f.:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/CATECHSM/PIU...Sacraments The Catechism of Pope Pius X: 

5 Q. What is the form of the sacrament of the Eucharist?
A. The form of the sacrament of the Eucharist consists of the words used by Jesus Christ Himself: "This is My Body: This is My Blood."


http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05030a.htm The Catholic Encyclopedia:

The authors of these treatises decide unanimously in favour of a negative and indirect rather than a positive and direct infallibility, inasmuch as in her general discipline, i.e. the common laws imposed on all the faithful, the Church can prescribe nothing that would be contrary to the natural or the Divine law, nor prohibit anything that the natural or the Divine law would exact. If well understood this thesis is undeniable; it amounts to saying that the Church does not and cannot impose practical directions contradictory of her own teaching.

and:

From the disciplinary infallibility of the Church, correctly understood as an indirect consequence of her doctrinal infallibility, it follows that she cannot be rightly accused of introducing into her discipline anything opposed to the Divine law;

But wait!  There's more!  How about a another Pope quote? http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Greg16/g16quogr.htm  Pope Gregory XVI in Quo Graviora:

The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth -- all of which truth is taught by the Holy Spirit. Should the church be able to order, yield to, or permit those things which tend toward the destruction of souls and the disgrace and detriment of the sacrament instituted by Christ?

The Church is infallible in her disciplinary norms and cannot promulgate something that is detrimental to the faith, certainly not a liturgical rite.  It is a negative and indirect infallibility.  Your opinion to the contrary puts you far outside the mainstream of Traditionalism and is a position that not even the SSPX adopts.
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Re: Licit to attend weekly NO Masses with abuses? - by DrBombay - 04-24-2009, 10:24 PM



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