Trad Dating/Marriage
#21
(04-19-2009, 09:26 PM)libby Wrote:
(04-19-2009, 08:39 PM)VoxClamantis Wrote: 7. Never ever thinks of sex (and certainly never expects pleasure out of it), but is willing to let him do it often enough so they end up with the 18 children.

!!!!!!!!

I thought "put a flag over your face and do it for your country" was reserved for certain Protestants and Madeleine Khan ( may she rest in peace).

no way.

Or 1984:  They must "do their duty to the Party." 


My take is the trad women are probably snobby because they've seen the arrogant attitude that is unfortunately so common amongst the trad men, as has been outlined.  The men hear the message of men being the head of his wife, a message contradicted everywhere else in our world.  They are so vindicated by this part of the message and reveling in the "superior" characteristic of their manhood that they never get around to reading the rest of Ephesians 5.  The women in their turn become cynical about the men, and try not to get their hopes up.

So men, you have to be able to show these ladies that you are prepared to love them "as Christ loved the Church".  Ladies, quit the ice princess act.  It doesn't work anyway.

All of this is easy for me to say as a newlywed, but it's true so I'm going to say it.  If you are trying to conform your will to God's, praying daily, attending daily Mass if possible, confessing your sins regularly, and doing your duty willingly, then you have no reason to worry about your vocation.  If you are called to marriage and you're living a holy life, you will find your spouse as God wills.  Not everyone gets married at 20 or even 30, and it doesn't necessarily mean that there's something wrong with you.  However, if there is some glaring fault that makes you rather undateable, fix it.  That requires being honest and humble.  Once you have humility, you can overcome any fault. 

I have figured that much out, but I haven't mastered the actually being humble part yet.  Obviously not, since I just launched into a pretty hard-hitting sermon to people I don't actually know.  So please take all of the preceding with the proverbial grain of salt.
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#22
Quote:So men, you have to be able to show these ladies that you are prepared to love them "as Christ loved the Church". 
When the 'head'(or more specifically, the brain) commands the body [part] to do something, it won't be dipping it into a vat of hydrochloric acid and letting it eat the flesh away until the bones are all that's left. Dwell on this analogy for a while, boys and men...
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#23
(04-19-2009, 07:32 PM)Magnificat Wrote: The individual who wrote this article says he's been dating for ten years - sounds like a candidate for the mortification thread down in the Pig Roast.  Ten years?!?!   This article is a cry for help, not a serious proposal about how Traditional Catholics should conduct themselves with regard to marriage.   

Of all the various comments on here, only you were the only one presumptuous enough to pretend to know the particulars of my situation.  Congratulations on that singular distinction.

My father, who this year will be married to my mother for 33 years, did not get married until he was 36.  He has raised 4 children, none of whom have left the Faith.  By my mathematical reckoning, that means he would have been dating for 18 years before finding my mom.  Oh, wait, let me italicize that: 18 years?!?!

I don't know what the pig roast is, but when he's in town next month I'll make sure to thank him once again for waiting for the right one and giving me the gift of life.

God bless you.
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#24
(04-19-2009, 07:32 PM)Magnificat Wrote: The individual who wrote this article says he's been dating for ten years - sounds like a candidate for the mortification thread down in the Pig Roast.  Ten years?!?!   This article is a cry for help, not a serious proposal about how Traditional Catholics should conduct themselves with regard to marriage.   

I don't understand your point. What sort of "cry for help"? I thought it was an article about not expecting "movie" type romance from courtship/dating and eventually marriage. Sitting around natting doilies in ma and pa's parlour won't win you any dates. I thought it was an interesting proposal on how to meet like-minded individuals.
It's so easy for those who are married to forget about the bone-crushing loneliness many singles go through. Think a little more before saying such insensitive things. You think the OP wants to remain single so long?
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#25
(04-20-2009, 01:01 AM)dedalus28 Wrote: My father, who this year will be married to my mother for 33 years, did not get married until he was 36.  He has raised 4 children, none of whom have left the Faith.  By my mathematical reckoning, that means he would have been dating for 18 years before finding my mom.  Oh, wait, let me italicize that: 18 years?!?!

Oh, I can top that.  When my parents got married, in 1968, my dad was 48 and my mom was 39.  Both lived with their parents until they got married.

By your mathematical reckoning, my dad was dating for 33 years before finding my mom, and my mom was dating for 21 years.

I guess they're in hell now.  ::)
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#26
(04-19-2009, 08:37 PM)obscurus Wrote: While waiting for the "ideal" spouse may make a man embark on a frustrating journey, I think if a man has an authentically Catholic view of married life he will be able to lead his future wife, who may fall short of these ideals, to holiness and she will gladly follow him. Beauty in a woman (and there are many beautiful traditional Catholic woman out there) should not give a woman a high opinion of herself but she should be thankful to God for this beauty because it is a means God has established for her to attract a man. It is perfectly natural. Nevertheless, the goal should always be "how will this man?" or "how will this woman?" help me become holy and help me establish a Catholic home. Is this too much to ask for in a future spouse?

I don't think so (er, that it's too much to ask for in a future spouse, that is)! I think it's crucial.

But as to the general topic of dating and marriage,  I think, too, that while the secular world overemphasizes the unitive aspect of marriage (to the point of forgetting that the primary purpose of marriage is procreation), a sub-set of trads consider only the procreative, or consider it inordinately relative to the unitive. No sane woman would say yes to this:

[Image: womendesirekiller.jpg]
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#27
Courtship is always a challenge.  I will say, though, that I found an amazing man only a week after praying for God to find me a husband.  We have been courting for over 6 months now, with the intention of eventually marrying.  If you told me a year ago that I would be saying this today, I'd have been  :o.  But now it comes quite naturally.  I have an amazing man in my life who is a traditional, family oriented Catholic.  So, it is possible to find someone.

The hard thing is often what the world thinks of people who will only court, without the modern dating.  Most of my first cousins always thought it was nuts that I wouldn't "date" but would instead only be friends with guys before I was able to commit.  "How will you learn about guys?"  "Um...by hanging out with them?  I don't have to date them to hang out, etc...and then, when I do start courting, I have guy friends and it's not all OMG A DUDE WHAT DO I DO!!!!"

One of my best friends (not Catholic, but committed to courtship, etc) was told by one of her friends (who is kind of no longer a friend at this point) that she should sleep with her fiance or she wouldn't know if he was "the right guy." Basically told her she was doomed to divorce unless she slept around with her fiance and other guys too so she could pick.

It's so important to keep in mind what you know is right and stick to it.

It's also important to know that everyone isn't perfect.  Jesus is perfect.  We aren't.  Marriage means accepting that and helping a person to grow in holyness.
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#28
(04-20-2009, 01:01 AM)dedalus28 Wrote:
(04-19-2009, 07:32 PM)Magnificat Wrote: The individual who wrote this article says he's been dating for ten years - sounds like a candidate for the mortification thread down in the Pig Roast.  Ten years?!?!   This article is a cry for help, not a serious proposal about how Traditional Catholics should conduct themselves with regard to marriage.   

Of all the various comments on here, only you were the only one presumptuous enough to pretend to know the particulars of my situation.  Congratulations on that singular distinction.

My father, who this year will be married to my mother for 33 years, did not get married until he was 36.  He has raised 4 children, none of whom have left the Faith.  By my mathematical reckoning, that means he would have been dating for 18 years before finding my mom.  Oh, wait, let me italicize that: 18 years?!?!

I don't know what the pig roast is, but when he's in town next month I'll make sure to thank him once again for waiting for the right one and giving me the gift of life.

God bless you.

It just seems like every time some young, unmarried trad male on here has a specific challenge - in this case, not having found a spouse - the solution presented always involves everybody else doing something different.  It never involves a change in the individual.  And looking back either positively or negatively at a past which never really existed isn't going to help anybody today.

I apologize to the others I offended here, because I did a poor job of expressing myself.  However, it wasn't a comment upon anything other than the piece linked, nowhere did I state that people who dated for years would be going to Hell,  and I wasn't advocating any 'movie' type courtships, and I wasn't insulting anybody's parents.  Nowhere did I say any of those things. 

I'll be taking a break from here before I get banned.  God Bless you all.
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#29
(04-20-2009, 07:06 AM)Magnificat Wrote:
(04-20-2009, 01:01 AM)dedalus28 Wrote:
(04-19-2009, 07:32 PM)Magnificat Wrote: The individual who wrote this article says he's been dating for ten years - sounds like a candidate for the mortification thread down in the Pig Roast.  Ten years?!?!   This article is a cry for help, not a serious proposal about how Traditional Catholics should conduct themselves with regard to marriage.   

Of all the various comments on here, only you were the only one presumptuous enough to pretend to know the particulars of my situation.  Congratulations on that singular distinction.

My father, who this year will be married to my mother for 33 years, did not get married until he was 36.  He has raised 4 children, none of whom have left the Faith.  By my mathematical reckoning, that means he would have been dating for 18 years before finding my mom.  Oh, wait, let me italicize that: 18 years?!?!

I don't know what the pig roast is, but when he's in town next month I'll make sure to thank him once again for waiting for the right one and giving me the gift of life.

God bless you.

It just seems like every time some young, unmarried trad male on here has a specific challenge - in this case, not having found a spouse - the solution presented always involves everybody else doing something different.  It never involves a change in the individual.  And looking back either positively or negatively at a past which never really existed isn't going to help anybody today.

I apologize to the others I offended here, because I did a poor job of expressing myself.  However, it wasn't a comment upon anything other than the piece linked, nowhere did I state that people who dated for years would be going to Hell,  and I wasn't advocating any 'movie' type courtships, and I wasn't insulting anybody's parents.  Nowhere did I say any of those things. 

I'll be taking a break from here before I get banned.  God Bless you all.

Magnificat

I appreciate your apology.  However, I don't understand how you missed the entire point of my piece, which was precisely a "change in the individual."  I alluded to unrealistic expectations, stubbornness, etc.  Those are traits of individuals.  My encouragement was: focusing on what was important, prayer, and reaching out to others for help.  I'm sorry you missed that.  I hope - and based on the comments here I have reason to do so - that others did not miss that.  What is needed is precisely a change in individuals.  Coincidentally, that leads to "everyone else doing something different" over time.

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#30


Oh, I can top that.  When my parents got married, in 1968, my dad was 48 and my mom was 39.  Both lived with their parents until they got married.

By your mathematical reckoning, my dad was dating for 33 years before finding my mom, and my mom was dating for 21 years.

I guess they're in hell now.   ::)
[/quote]

Oh, yeah?

well, my Mom was 40....and my Dad was 28.

:)

She robbed the hell out of that cradle. And they BOTH lived at home, too.

I'm 86, and I'm thinking of asking the 19 year old at Auto Zone out for lunch.
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