Should torture ever be allowed?
#40
(04-29-2009, 04:58 PM)SaintRafael Wrote:
(04-29-2009, 03:51 PM)Bonifacius Wrote:   *IF* you define torture merely as corporal punishment, then it is hard to see how torture can be wrong for punishing the guilty. 

Corporal punishment is just that just punishment for a crime. The criminal has been found guilty by the law. Torture is inflicting pain before the finding of any guilt before the law. There has been no judgement from lawful authorirhy for crime. Torture is not punishment for a crime by the state but pain inflicted by one individual for a different reason.

(04-29-2009, 03:51 PM)Bonifacius Wrote: That means that there are instances where I can use pain and even injury in self-defense.  If someone is trying to drown me, I can try to drown him to save my own life.  But if I can swim away to safety after holding his head under water for only 20 seconds or so, I am supposed to let him live and save myself.  But if someone is trying to blow up a city, I cannot hold his head under water to save that city?
No saving a city is not self defense. There is no threath against your immediate person that justifies the use of self defense.

First, the Catechism says that torture may not be used for the "punishment of the guilty," a purpose listed alongside "extraction of confession."  Clearly, whoever wrote the Catechism did not define torture as you do, as he thought that certain forms of punishment inflicted *after the determination of guilt,* at the *end* of a legal process, might meet the definition.  I hardly think that John Paul II would say that the definition "torture" excludes cruel and unusual statutory punishments.  We must really ask at this point, what is the *intrinsic* difference then between corporal punishment as a sentence for crime (a sentence like flogging, for instance) and "torture"?  This sort of confusion in a non-infallible source (the Catechism) raises, I think, legitimate questions about the terminology and authority of this particular section of the Catechism.

Your second claim is simply incorrect.  What if you are in the city that might be destroyed by the bomb?  Secondly, what we may do to save our own lives we may legitimately do to save the lives of others.  If in a given scenario it is morally permissible for me to save my own life by killing another person, then in relevantly similar situations I may most certainly intervene to save another person's life by killing the aggressor.  Your reasoning here is quite weak.  

Do you admit that I may hold another person's head under water if I am doing this to save my own life?  If so, I can do so to save my neighbor's life.  And a city full of people is full of my neighbors.
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Messages In This Thread
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Walty - 04-29-2009, 10:29 AM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by DrBombay - 04-29-2009, 03:05 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by SCG - 04-29-2009, 03:09 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by SCG - 04-29-2009, 03:12 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Texican - 04-29-2009, 03:14 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by SCG - 04-29-2009, 03:19 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by DrBombay - 04-29-2009, 03:23 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Texican - 04-29-2009, 04:31 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Texican - 04-29-2009, 05:00 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Texican - 04-29-2009, 05:03 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Bonifacius - 04-29-2009, 05:06 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Melita - 04-29-2009, 05:23 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Texican - 04-29-2009, 05:32 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Walty - 04-29-2009, 06:57 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by SCG - 04-29-2009, 07:33 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Texican - 04-29-2009, 07:45 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by SCG - 04-29-2009, 08:20 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by SCG - 04-29-2009, 08:26 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by SCG - 04-29-2009, 08:45 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by SCG - 04-29-2009, 09:07 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Marc - 04-29-2009, 09:40 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by INPEFESS - 04-30-2009, 08:14 AM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by INPEFESS - 04-30-2009, 09:45 AM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by INPEFESS - 04-30-2009, 10:27 AM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by INPEFESS - 04-30-2009, 11:01 AM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by INPEFESS - 09-02-2009, 11:19 AM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by glgas - 09-02-2009, 01:50 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by INPEFESS - 09-02-2009, 03:16 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by INPEFESS - 09-02-2009, 09:05 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by INPEFESS - 09-03-2009, 01:16 AM



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