Should torture ever be allowed?
#72
(04-29-2009, 07:53 PM)didishroom Wrote: Slavery, as in the case of Negro and Indian enslavement in the New World, was evil, as three different popes condemned it.
St. Paul's actions is also being misinterprited here. Jesus said when one strikes you to turn the other cheek(for him to slap you again.) He isn't condoing slapping people any more than Paul is condoning slavery when he tells the slave to be obdient to his master. Elswhere Paul recommends that if they can, slaves should try and be free. I don't want to hijack the thread, but thought I would throw that in. If you want to continue a slavery debate maybe we can ask Quis to move it for us.

But I agree with you on the torture thing. See my post above.

Slavery in se has not been condemned by the Church.  The problem with the enslavement of blacks and Indians was that the specifics of their enslavement were immoral -- they hadn't done anything wrong and were just going abou their lives when someone kidnapped them.  That does not mean that there cannot be just claims to enslavement.  Obviously, you know that Indians and blacks were not the first people ever to be slaves. Criminals on chain gangs are slaves (they certainly are not at liberty), and they deserve it.  I was not referring to St. Paul telling slaves to be obedient; I was referring to the fact that he told Onesimus to go back to Philemon and did not *require* Philemon to manumit Onesimus.  St. Paul had the *perfect* opportunity there to say slavery is inherently immoral, and instead he more or less returned a slave to his master.  Yes, he does say that slaves should try and be free, but he doesn't say that their current state is always inherently unjust.  I bring this all up because "Gaudium et Spes" and "Veritatis Splendor" condemn torture, slavery, and deportation in the same terms, yet the Church has never condemned *any and all* practices called "slavery" as inherently unjust, and obviously deportation can be just.  Ergo, it seems hard to appeal to these documents for an authoritative condemnation of any and all practices commonly called torture as inherently evil.

I may have done my argument a disservice by appealing to another controversial topic, namely slavery.  But remember, Didishroom, war and capital punishment are also similarly controversial in some quarters, even within the Church.
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Messages In This Thread
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Walty - 04-29-2009, 10:29 AM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by DrBombay - 04-29-2009, 03:05 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by SCG - 04-29-2009, 03:09 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by SCG - 04-29-2009, 03:12 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Texican - 04-29-2009, 03:14 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by SCG - 04-29-2009, 03:19 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by DrBombay - 04-29-2009, 03:23 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Texican - 04-29-2009, 04:31 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Texican - 04-29-2009, 05:00 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Texican - 04-29-2009, 05:03 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Melita - 04-29-2009, 05:23 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Texican - 04-29-2009, 05:32 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Walty - 04-29-2009, 06:57 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by SCG - 04-29-2009, 07:33 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Texican - 04-29-2009, 07:45 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Bonifacius - 04-29-2009, 08:08 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by SCG - 04-29-2009, 08:20 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by SCG - 04-29-2009, 08:26 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by SCG - 04-29-2009, 08:45 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by SCG - 04-29-2009, 09:07 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by Marc - 04-29-2009, 09:40 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by INPEFESS - 04-30-2009, 08:14 AM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by INPEFESS - 04-30-2009, 09:45 AM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by INPEFESS - 04-30-2009, 10:27 AM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by INPEFESS - 04-30-2009, 11:01 AM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by INPEFESS - 09-02-2009, 11:19 AM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by glgas - 09-02-2009, 01:50 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by INPEFESS - 09-02-2009, 03:16 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by INPEFESS - 09-02-2009, 09:05 PM
Re: Should torture ever be allowed? - by INPEFESS - 09-03-2009, 01:16 AM



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