How bad would a Novus Ordo Mass have to be to justify not attending?
#21
(05-01-2009, 10:15 PM)Baskerville Wrote: The Mass I originaly mentioned is pretty bad the Priest says instead of "behold the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world" . "Behold Jesus who we recognize in the breaking of the bread and the drinking of the cup behold him who reconciles the poor how blessed are we to come to the lords supper. He also never mentions sacrifice at all[i][/i]. In the part of the Mass that goes "Pray bretheran that this our sacrifice" He say Pray sisters and Brothers that these our gifts etc." The whole thing is ad libbed. Back in my non Catholic days I have been to Anglican services that are more in line with the dogmas of real presence and sacrifice.

I asked this in another thread but I don't think anyone answered the question: Where in the Novus Ordo Missae is the Mass referred to as the Sacrifice on Calvary?
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#22
(05-01-2009, 10:27 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(05-01-2009, 10:15 PM)Baskerville Wrote: The Mass I originaly mentioned is pretty bad the Priest says instead of "behold the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world" . "Behold Jesus who we recognize in the breaking of the bread and the drinking of the cup behold him who reconciles the poor how blessed are we to come to the lords supper. He also never mentions sacrifice at all[i][/i]. In the part of the Mass that goes "Pray bretheran that this our sacrifice" He say Pray sisters and Brothers that these our gifts etc." The whole thing is ad libbed. Back in my non Catholic days I have been to Anglican services that are more in line with the dogmas of real presence and sacrifice.

I asked this in another thread but I don't think anyone answered the question: Where in the Novus Ordo Missae is the Mass referred to as the Sacrifice on Calvary?
I think that is one of it s defects. But at one point the Priest says "Pray Brothers and sisters that this our sacrifice may be acceptable to God the almighty father. Eucharistic prayer one and three mention sacrifice. But specificly the sacrifice of calvary nowhere I dont think. Does the TLM specificly mention it. I would have to go check my missal.'

: Note I hope this is not taken that I am defending the NO I am not it is just Ihave to attend it 2-3
times a month out of necessity.
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#23
(05-01-2009, 10:15 PM)Baskerville Wrote: Thanks for the advice and prayers everyone. I think I will see if I can get a friend to take me to the other Mass he's a lukewarm Catholic but I might get him to go with me.

You could help nudge him back to tradition!
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#24
(05-01-2009, 10:27 PM)INPEFESS Wrote: I asked this in another thread but I don't think anyone answered the question: Where in the Novus Ordo Missae is the Mass referred to as the Sacrifice on Calvary?

The priest prays the same silent prayer during the offertory, before the incensing, as appears in the TLM: "In spiritu humilitatis et in animo contrito suscipiamur a te, Domine; et sic fiat sacrificium nostrum in conspectu tuo hodie, ut placeat tibi, Domine Deus." (The unofficial translation is "Humbled in mind, and contrite of heart, may we find favor with Thee, O Lord; and may the sacrifice we this day offer up be well pleasing to Thee, Who art our Lord and our God.")

And of course, the "Orate, fratres" and its response, "Suscipiat Dominus" are the same.

Eucharistic Prayer I (the Roman Canon) of course has quite a number of references....
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#25
(05-01-2009, 11:59 PM)CollegeCatholic Wrote:
(05-01-2009, 10:15 PM)Baskerville Wrote: Thanks for the advice and prayers everyone. I think I will see if I can get a friend to take me to the other Mass he's a lukewarm Catholic but I might get him to go with me.

You could help nudge him back to tradition!
I am working on it. He's been my best friend since middle school.
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#26
(05-02-2009, 12:16 AM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(05-01-2009, 10:27 PM)INPEFESS Wrote: I asked this in another thread but I don't think anyone answered the question: Where in the Novus Ordo Missae is the Mass referred to as the Sacrifice on Calvary?

The priest prays the same silent prayer during the offertory, before the incensing, as appears in the TLM: "In spiritu humilitatis et in animo contrito suscipiamur a te, Domine; et sic fiat sacrificium nostrum in conspectu tuo hodie, ut placeat tibi, Domine Deus." (The unofficial translation is "Humbled in mind, and contrite of heart, may we find favor with Thee, O Lord; and may the sacrifice we this day offer up be well pleasing to Thee, Who art our Lord and our God.")

And of course, the "Orate, fratres" and its response, "Suscipiat Dominus" are the same.

Eucharistic Prayer I (the Roman Canon) of course has quite a number of references....

Ok, thanks! Although, that doesn't sound like a reference to the Sacrifice on Calvary; rather, that could be just as appropriate as a morning offering. We offer our sacrifices in union with that of the Sacrifice on Calvary for the propitiation of sins. I'm looking for where in the Mass it says that it is the Sacrifice of Calvary, the Sacrifice of God. Ours, without His, are devoid of effect.
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#27
(05-02-2009, 12:48 AM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(05-02-2009, 12:16 AM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(05-01-2009, 10:27 PM)INPEFESS Wrote: I asked this in another thread but I don't think anyone answered the question: Where in the Novus Ordo Missae is the Mass referred to as the Sacrifice on Calvary?

The priest prays the same silent prayer during the offertory, before the incensing, as appears in the TLM: "In spiritu humilitatis et in animo contrito suscipiamur a te, Domine; et sic fiat sacrificium nostrum in conspectu tuo hodie, ut placeat tibi, Domine Deus." (The unofficial translation is "Humbled in mind, and contrite of heart, may we find favor with Thee, O Lord; and may the sacrifice we this day offer up be well pleasing to Thee, Who art our Lord and our God.")

And of course, the "Orate, fratres" and its response, "Suscipiat Dominus" are the same.

Eucharistic Prayer I (the Roman Canon) of course has quite a number of references....

Ok, thanks! Although, that doesn't sound like a reference to the Sacrifice on Calvary; rather, that could be just as appropriate as a morning offering. We offer our sacrifices in union with that of the Sacrifice on Calvary for the propitiation of sins. I'm looking for where in the Mass it says that it is the Sacrifice of Calvary, the Sacrifice of God. Ours, without His, are devoid of effect.

INPEFESS I dont think your going to find what your looking for. It was always my understanding that those who criticise the new Mass wether they be Cardianl Ottiviani or ArchB Lefabvre this was one of the things they said was lacking "a reference to sacrifice making it much closer to the protestants "lords supper" services. I would agree with them the only reason I go to the NO is because I dont think the Curch could promulgate an invalid Mass.
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#28
(05-02-2009, 01:05 AM)Baskerville Wrote:
(05-02-2009, 12:48 AM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(05-02-2009, 12:16 AM)The_Harlequin_King Wrote:
(05-01-2009, 10:27 PM)INPEFESS Wrote: I asked this in another thread but I don't think anyone answered the question: Where in the Novus Ordo Missae is the Mass referred to as the Sacrifice on Calvary?

The priest prays the same silent prayer during the offertory, before the incensing, as appears in the TLM: "In spiritu humilitatis et in animo contrito suscipiamur a te, Domine; et sic fiat sacrificium nostrum in conspectu tuo hodie, ut placeat tibi, Domine Deus." (The unofficial translation is "Humbled in mind, and contrite of heart, may we find favor with Thee, O Lord; and may the sacrifice we this day offer up be well pleasing to Thee, Who art our Lord and our God.")

And of course, the "Orate, fratres" and its response, "Suscipiat Dominus" are the same.

Eucharistic Prayer I (the Roman Canon) of course has quite a number of references....

Ok, thanks! Although, that doesn't sound like a reference to the Sacrifice on Calvary; rather, that could be just as appropriate as a morning offering. We offer our sacrifices in union with that of the Sacrifice on Calvary for the propitiation of sins. I'm looking for where in the Mass it says that it is the Sacrifice of Calvary, the Sacrifice of God. Ours, without His, are devoid of effect.

INPEFESS I dont think your going to find what your looking for. It was always my understanding that those who criticise the new Mass wether they be Cardianl Ottiviani or ArchB Lefabvre this was one of the things they said was lacking "a reference to sacrifice making it much closer to the protestants "lords supper" services. I would agree with them the only reason I go to the NO is because I dont think the Curch could promulgate an invalid Mass.

Ok, thank you. I'll stop asking for it then. I had heard this was true, but I didn't want to believe that they had actually removed all reference to the very Purpose of the Mass.

This never made sense to me: If they remove mention of the Mass as the Sacrifice on Calvary in order to attract more Protestant attendance, then what reason do we have to think that Protestants (even some Catholics) believe that the Eucarist is actually the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ? If they wouldn't come before because they didn't believe that it was actually the Sacrifice of Christ, and so in response the Church has removed all mention of it, then when Protestant attendance increases, it is likely that they come because the mention of the Sacrifice has been removed. If this is so, then it is also very likely that these Protestants (hopefully turned Catholic) are receiving the Host unworthily. I just read an article in yesterday's paper concerning the number of Catholics who don't actually believe in the Real Presence. By conceding to the non-belief in the Real Presence (if they are not receiving Communion, then the non-belief in the Real Presence does not commit a sacrilege; the only reason they would eliminate reference to the Sacrifice is if they wanted non-believers in the Real Presence to justify receiving Communion) in order to encourage attendance by those who do not believe in this Presence, how is the Church not contributing to and encouraging this sacrilege?
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#29
(05-02-2009, 10:42 AM)INPEFESS Wrote: Ok, thank you. I'll stop asking for it then. I had heard this was true, but I didn't want to believe that they had actually removed all reference to the very Purpose of the Mass.

Here is the side by side comparison of the New Mass and Tridentine Mass (both English)

http://www.the-pope.com/missals.html

It worth to search for the word 'sacrifice' before making judgment.

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#30
>>>>the priest is refusing the elevate the sacred host or chalice...there is a high chance that he doesn't believe in the Real Presence, in which case the Mass he says would not be valid due to lack of proper intent.  In which case, it is no better than no "Mass" at all...in fact, it might be worse because it is misleading people into thinking that the are getting the grace they would if they were taking communion in a valid Mass. <<<<



If one has any doubt as to the validity of the Sacrament, he is forbidden by the Church to take part.  You are never allowed to take part in a doubtful Sacrament. It is a mortal sin.


JMJ



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