How bad would a Novus Ordo Mass have to be to justify not attending?
#51
(05-05-2009, 09:18 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(05-05-2009, 09:10 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote:
(05-05-2009, 09:00 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(05-05-2009, 08:10 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: Well, the Novus Ordo could be said in Latin, ad orientem, with all the incense, all the bells and traditional vestments, even with Gregorian chant and I still wouldn't go. I simply won't attend a protestantized liturgy that has been the main vehicle for the destruction of the Faith, even if it may be occasionally valid depending on the priest who says it.

This same concession towards Protestantism has been the primary vehicle which has defied the Supreme Law of the Church. The Novus Ordo Missae frustrates the fulfillment of this law.

Ergo, catholics should stay away from it. It's about time we all start fighting for the Church.

You mean not for Protestantism? But it makes me feel better about my sins!

Interestingly enough, the Offertory was the first thing Luther eliminated from the Mass as well; the very reference of the Mass as the Sacrifice on Calvary was repulsive to him. The Sacrifice of Calvary is the substance of the Mass. The Mass is the center of the Church. Eliminate all belief in the Propitiatory Sacrifice of the Mass and you weaken the Church's defense against evil.

As we can easily attest by these last 40 years of ongoing scandals, heresies and complete apostasy in unprecedented numbers.
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#52
(05-05-2009, 08:10 PM)Vetus Ordo Wrote: Well, the Novus Ordo could be said in Latin, ad orientem, with all the incense, all the bells and traditional vestments, even with Gregorian chant and I still wouldn't go. I simply won't attend a protestantized liturgy that has been the main vehicle for the destruction of the Faith, even if it may be occasionally valid depending on the priest who says it.

Well, that about says it.  It recalls something that Catholic a Priest once told me, " it's not Catholic".  Simple but true


JMJ    JPM
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#53
I know that the SSPX advise - or tell outright - its faithful not to attend the Novus Ordo even if there is no Traditional Mass to attend. I am sure many traditional Catholics follow their advice; I did until about 18 months ago. My conscience was disturbed by this - so I now attend the least objectionable Novus Ordo Mass I can find, on Sundays when there is no Traditional Mass for me to attend. Eastern rites are non existent.

I would say if there is OBJECTIVE sacrilege, and deliberate and substantial violation of the rubrics, one should not be present. That the liturgy is not to ones taste, the music poor, etc - or, more to the point, our PRIVATE OPINIONS regarding the defects of  the Novus Ordo should not alone be enough to keep us from Mass on a day of obligation.

One thing with which I battle is communion in the hand and EHMC's - do these constitute objective sacrilege? Sure, one can personally receive on the tongue or even kneeling at the Mass which I attend, and avoid EHMC's, but these things ARE PRESENT. Yet they are permitted by the Church in certain circumstances. Even permission for EHMC's is very vague. I believe they are used unnecessarily at the church I attend - but the general rule seems so vague, I am hesitant to say their use is illegal. And communion in the hand is permitted. Is it still possible to say these things are OBJECTIVELY and INTRINSICALLY sacrilegous?

God bless.
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#54
It would have to have all the rubrics performed correctly and be very reverent to justify not attending, and anything less than that should be avoided too. :titanic:


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In all seriousness, why would anyone ask this question on this board unless you just wanted to know where various people stand?  I hope none of our opinions help you choose when to avoid and when to not.  You need to read serious sources.  The SSPX and SSPV list great reasons to avoid at all costs.  The FSSP lists great reasons to avoid most of the time and I bet various FSSP priests will be more than willing to tell you great reasons for avoiding it all the time.

The local bishop, and various Unnamed-NO-apologists-who-start-fights-on-the-welcome-board might have different opinions. ;D
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#55
(05-06-2009, 07:47 AM)tridentinist Wrote: I would say if there is OBJECTIVE sacrilege, and deliberate and substantial violation of the rubrics, one should not be present.

How are you supposed to know before you go?

If, before watching a religious movie designed (supposedly) to increase virtue, we read from its reviews that there is a likelihood of obscenity, yet we watch it anyway and the movie is obscene, then we cannot claim innocence. We can never justify evil in the name of good.

Edited to add: I'm not comparing the Novus Ordo Missae to a movie; but it is a similar principle.
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#56
(05-12-2009, 08:56 PM)INPEFESS Wrote: I'm not comparing the Novus Ordo Missae to a movie; but it is a similar principle.

yeah, movies are better. :laughing:
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#57
(05-12-2009, 10:09 PM)Scipio_a Wrote:
(05-12-2009, 08:56 PM)INPEFESS Wrote: I'm not comparing the Novus Ordo Missae to a movie; but it is a similar principle.

yeah, movies are better. :laughing:

:laughing:

See, I do have a sense of humor.
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#58
I wouldn't go to any Novus Ordo "bastard mass" through my own free choice.  Weddings and Funerals of close relatives only and then only with my fingers crossed.
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#59
(05-13-2009, 07:11 AM)ggreg Wrote: I wouldn't go to any Novus Ordo "bastard mass" through my own free choice.  Weddings and Funerals of close relatives only and then only with my fingers crossed.

I'm with ya, but I have promised my parents that if they do not shape up and start attending the TLM  I will not even go their funerals.  The last NO I went to was my grandma's.  My dad tried to make it as conservative as possible (that's his preference anyway), and he orchestrated a Last Gospel reading.  The presbyter would not do it so he had asked me to a day or two before.  I said I did not want to and he got all pissy.

I did finally give in.  I felt like a prostitute after her first John.  I needed to take a shower to get the stink off.  That is when I final made up my mind that under no circumstances would I ever go to one of those things again.

They can just have their counterfeit families set it all up and go.
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#60
(05-13-2009, 08:59 AM)Scipio_a Wrote: The presbyter would not do it so he had asked me to a day or two before.  I said I did not want to and he got all pissy.

Interesting that you called him a "presbyter" (which I know was intentional) because, as you know, it is the post-VII word used to replace the word "priest" in the Rite of Ordination. Traditionally, a priest is one who performs a sacrifice; a presbyter is one who presides over a religious communion. Why would you change that unless you didn't want anyone to think that a sacrifice, in this case, the Spotless Sacrifice, was being offered?
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