Lots and Lots, or few get to Heaven
#1
OK, I do not want any quotes from saints, etc. since there are saints that that fall on both sides of this divide.  Are there lots of people or only smaller numbers that will make it to Heaven, in YOUR opinion) or feeling)?

I ask this because I fluctuate between both poles on this.  Some times it depends on my mode, other times it is an intellectual process.  Perhaps you fluctuate as well...why?

I woke up tonight with the dread thought again that it is few -- Here's why.  I just watched Valkyrie and I know a decent amount of WWII and Nazi history, not to mention other history.  I began to wonder why God allows people like Hitler to make a deal with the Devil and get away time after time, like they have been greased to escape disaster time and again and ruin the lives of millions upon millions of people (we all wonder this from time to time even if we have solid teaching about free will).  Then the nagging answer smacked me in the face like a brick thrown by Dwayne 'The Rock" Johnson, these trials are sent to separate the wheat from the chaff.  The only problem is there always seems to be more chaff than wheat.  Kinda like he's building a team and is only looking for the reliable.


Then again, I know in a few days I'll be back to the lots and lots side, finding it hard to imagine a Father that won't forgive his children.  Being a dad myself I can see this, there is almost nothing I could not forgive my children. if anything.  Even were one to commit murder, although I would expect and want him or her to be justly executed.  I would want this not just out of a sense of justice but also to put final things in his mind so that he might truly repent and attain Heaven.


Do any of you have thoughts on this...I am not looking for people to debate anyone else's post here...so please do not.  I am only looking for your experiences and outlooks on this matter.

Thanks,

Scipio
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#2
Lots.
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#3
I tend to go with the "lots and lots" without concentrating on the possibility (probability?) that more will not make it. It is more spiritually beneficial (for me, at least) to concentrate on God's mercy. Of course, God's mercy is greater than any earthly father's. Thing is, God has perfect justice too.

I like to ponder this verse in Revelations:
Quote: After this I saw a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and tribes, and peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne, and in sight of the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands (Apocalypse 7: 9-10).

And consider, these are only the martyrs who have come out of the great tribulation! So we can say in fact that there are "lots and lots" in heaven. My thought is that at the moment of death, sinners are given one last opportunity to appeal to God's mercy or God's justice. You might think - who wouldn't appeal to God's mercy? Well, there are tons of people full of pride, who have made themselves gods - who think they can stand up to God's justice and win. Just like the devil himself. That's the scary thing.

- Lisa
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#4
Lots.

Lots will go to Hell, I think, but it seems to me that saying only a few will get into Heaven is like calling Jesus a failure.
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#5
I figure that there will be millions if not billions in heaven. But compared to the amount of those in hell it will seem very few, which is why the saints speak of the "fewness" saved. IMO one soul that it is not saved is one too many.
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#6
It is quite simple, as far as I can tell: relatively few, ie, a small proportion of humankind will go to Heaven (Matthew vii, 13; Luke xiii, 24; the saints — avoid the rest of that site, though), but this will still represent many people (Apocalypse vii, 9).

Let us suppose that one per cent of humankind is saved, and that there have been ten billion humans; that would amount to a hundred million persons saved. That is a lot, no?
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#7
I agree with Didishroom. I know that God's Mercy is boundless, but unfortunately not many people will avail themselves of that Mercy. I think of Christ's words in the Gospel, "How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!" (Matthew 7:14). If we are take Christ seriously, we know that in the grand scheme of things, "few" make it to Heaven. A great multitude, yes, over the course of human history, but still few in comparison to how many will be lost.
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#8
I like to think lots and lots as I will not put any limit on the mercy of God and the redemptive action of our Lord's Passion.

However I also fear it will be few (and I might not make it) when I read:

Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he went, always pressing on toward Jerusalem. Someone asked him, “Lord, will only a few be saved?” He replied, “Work hard to enter the narrow door to God’s Kingdom, for many will try to enter but will fail. When the master of the house has locked the door, it will be too late. You will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Lord, open the door for us!’ But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’ Then you will say, ‘But we ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’ And he will reply, ‘I tell you, I don’t know you or where you come from. Get away from me, all you who do evil.’

Suffer both to grow until the harvest, and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers: Gather up first the cockle, and bind it into bundles to burn, but the wheat gather ye into my barn.

So shall it be at the end of the world. The angels shall go out, and shall separate the wicked from among the just. And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
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#9
Just a thought. Is anyone a farmer or familiar with farming wheat? In the above Scriptures, Jesus refers to the cockle and the wheat. Does anyone know what the ratio would be? Perhaps the Lord gives us a clue.
tim
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#10
The problem here is - why do we make the decisions we make?  How does free will work?  If we make our decisions because God made us a certain way, like a computer running through a program, then it would seem unfair of God to send anyone to hell.  But clearly it doesn't work that way.  Then is it totally random?  That doesn't seem fair either.  There must be something in the will that is neither deterministic nor random nor probablistic.  Something like God which defies those explanations.  But what?  Without understanding what this is or how it works, I couldn't even begin to guess how many people will chose right and go to heaven.  We say that if God wanted everyone to go to heaven, he could simply have made everyone to want to do good.  But it seems that in our wills God has created something that depends on him for its existence, as does everything, but for which he has given up control.  Of course, God could still chose to have mercy on everyone, whether they want it or not.  But then he wouldn't be perfectly just, would he?  Or we wouldn't really be free, would we?  Without understanding why people choose the way they do, it seems impossible to even speculate on how many will get to heaven.  I will just do the best I can to get there :pray:
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