What is the highest virtue?
#1
Humility or obedience?
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#2
They're basically the same thing
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#3
(06-01-2009, 01:23 PM)didishroom Wrote: They're basically the same thing

Yes, I think obedience is derived from humility.
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#4
I agree with the others. Humility is like the pedestal of all virtue, just as pride (the sin of Lucifer) is the root of all vice. It takes humility to be obedient, to be charitable, etc.

- Lisa
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#5
It seems hard to practice humility in a concrete fashion because it is an elusive virtue. Religious only take the vows of poverty, chastity and obedience (of which obedience is the greatest), and Benedictines only take the vow of obedience I believe.

So if one wishes to acquire humility, maybe a good way to achieve this would be by practicing obedience?
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#6
(06-01-2009, 01:39 PM)Etheldreda Wrote: So if one wishes to acquire humility, maybe a good way to achieve this would be by practicing obedience?

But you’re sort of putting the cart before the horse. Remember, the cry of Lucifer was: “I will not serve!” He would not obey because His sin was that of pride.

Likewise, humility spawns obedience. Humility and service go hand in hand. If we didn’t have humility we would set ourselves and our own needs up as all-important.  We should pray for humility, which is the act of becoming God-centered instead of self-centered. We should be like St. Michael “who is like unto God.” 

- Lisa
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#7
(06-01-2009, 01:51 PM)StrictCatholicGirl Wrote:
(06-01-2009, 01:39 PM)Etheldreda Wrote: So if one wishes to acquire humility, maybe a good way to achieve this would be by practicing obedience?

But you’re sort of putting the cart before the horse. Remember, the cry of Lucifer was: “I will not serve!” He would not obey because His sin was that of pride.

Likewise, humility spawns obedience. Humility and service go hand in hand. If we didn’t have humility we would set ourselves and our own needs up as all-important.  We should pray for humility, which is the act of becoming God-centered instead of self-centered. We should be like St. Michael “who is like unto God.”   

- Lisa

Yes, I think that makes sense. One could easily put on an act of being obedient. Like St. Augustine said that where humility doesn't exist, there can be no other virtue except in mere appearance.
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#8
(06-01-2009, 01:39 PM)Etheldreda Wrote: It seems hard to practice humility in a concrete fashion because it is an elusive virtue. Religious only take the vows of poverty, chastity and obedience (of which obedience is the greatest), and Benedictines only take the vow of obedience I believe.

So if one wishes to acquire humility, maybe a good way to achieve this would be by practicing obedience?

You can only take the vow to perform or not perform the action.  You cannot take a vow for the underlying mental state.

I be obedient without being humble.
I could be chaste in my actions while being a dirty old man in my head.
I can live without possessions while consumed with avarice.

These vows are there to help nurture the correct mindset and devotion, however they are only the physical acts.  What God cares about is what is in your heart.  If I give to charity, but without love for my fellow man, what good does it do me?  I am supposed to give as an expression of my love, not because I have to...
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#9
Good point about humility being an underlying mental state. Of course you cannot take a vow for that, and that is exactly why it can be difficult to make concrete resolutions regarding how to go about practicing humility.
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#10
The funny thing about humility is: once you know you got it... you don’t got it!  :laughing:

- Lisa
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