Twins...
#11
I would tend to think 2 souls even before the separation because God, being all-knowing, would know that that particular zygote would split into identical twins. We have a twin on the forum. I wonder what he thinks... Sam? You around?

edited to add: saying they are only one soul would seem to diminish them as human beings, having only "1/2 a soul".  :shrug:
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#12
Few thoughts:

* If there is a "shared" soul, then what if one dies before birth? You can't baptise the dead.
* If there is one soul in the beginning (conception), it is against all logic to say it can be split (it isn't material), so there must be two unique souls.
* If there are two souls in the beginning, then it violates the logic of ensoulment (which always seems to require the body to exist in some way. Souls aren't "prepared" before hand although I'm certain they are planned.)

So, the soul must be created/given a body, when the body exists. The two questions I see is does the original conception "count" and is ensouled which would mean one is given a soul after the split, or does ensoulment wait until after they are distinct. Since humans can interfere with this process, artifically split a zygote, I would say ensoulment happens as the bodies are created.
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#13
(06-06-2009, 03:48 PM)Spooky Wrote: I would tend to think 2 souls even before the separation because God, being all-knowing, would know that that particular zygote would split into identical twins. We have a twin on the forum. I wonder what he thinks... Sam? You around?

edited to add: saying they are only one soul would seem to diminish them as human beings, having only "1/2 a soul".  :shrug:

As to the diminishing thing, I don't see that, I see it as a special situation to be envied (not in the bad way).  It would not make them any less a person, just the same.  Then experience would start and the same substances would start to alter from one another to some extent.

The Campbell twins scored 74 each on the Army entrance test back in the 50s.  They joke about make one whole person together as a result.
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#14
How funny, DH and I were just talking about this last night! Scipio, I had basically the same idea you did, but you expressed it is a much more eloquent way. I'm not sure I said they have the SAME soul, but that it was of the same substance. We know life begins at conception, and we know in order for their to be life for a human, there must be a human soul. So the human being who splits into 2 would not have half a soul, but the "same" soul, duplicated. Just like identical twins are genetically the same, but yet, different, I think the soul situation could be the same thing- the same, yet unique and loved individually by God.
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#15
(06-06-2009, 07:28 PM)savienu Wrote: How funny, DH and I were just talking about this last night! Scipio, I had basically the same idea you did, but you expressed it is a much more eloquent way. I'm not sure I said they have the SAME soul, but that it was of the same substance. We know life begins at conception, and we know in order for their to be life for a human, there must be a human soul. So the human being who splits into 2 would not have half a soul, but the "same" soul, duplicated. Just like identical twins are genetically the same, but yet, different, I think the soul situation could be the same thing- the same, yet unique and loved individually by God.

That view makes a lot of sense, too, when considering conjoined twins.
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#16
I don't think any of us really know enough about souls to say quite how it works with identical twins, as a soul isn't something that can be split in half. My own intuition would be that before splitting there would likely be one soul, and after splitting there would be two complete human souls (as it doesn't make any sense to speak of a partial soul).


But you couldn't really claim there is only one soul for the two of them. Death is the separation of soul and body, and it would be bizarre to claim there could be two bodies with only one soul. If there were only one soul for the two of them, then if one of them goes to Confession, the other also is absolved. If one of them is ordained, so is the other.... We like to remark on the similarity of identical twins on things beyond mere appearance, but you only have one will, one intellect. No one claims that it's impossible for twins to disagree, or for one to know things the other doesn't.
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#17
(06-07-2009, 03:06 PM)ForumLurker Wrote: I don't think any of us really know enough about souls to say quite how it works with identical twins, as a soul isn't something that can be split in half. My own intuition would be that before splitting there would likely be one soul, and after splitting there would be two complete human souls (as it doesn't make any sense to speak of a partial soul).


But you couldn't really claim there is only one soul for the two of them. Death is the separation of soul and body, and it would be bizarre to claim there could be two bodies with only one soul. If there were only one soul for the two of them, then if one of them goes to Confession, the other also is absolved. If one of them is ordained, so is the other.... We like to remark on the similarity of identical twins on things beyond mere appearance, but you only have one will, one intellect. No one claims that it's impossible for twins to disagree, or for one to know things the other doesn't.

No no no.  Not one soul for 2 bodies, but a duplicate of the soul for the duplicated body.  You know, since identical twins share exact DNA, the 2 souls would share in whatever "substance" souls are made of.  That's the speculation being bantered about.
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