Vegetarianism: Hippie Fad or Part of the Culture of Life?
#11
(06-17-2009, 02:21 PM)salixbabylonica Wrote: I read Eberstadt's article some weeks ago, but to my recollection, it was unconvincing on the whole.  She does, however, make what I think is a very solid point - the logic leading most of these philosophical vegetarians to support animal rights should inexorably lead them to reject abortion.  Frankly, I don't see how anyone could possibly cringe at eating a chicken and find nothing objectionable about slaughtering a child.  Her very explanation of the origins of vegetarianism (of a certain type)* provides the answer to that very puzzle, although she does not, to my recollection, make the connection.  She highlights that most vegetarians of this sort come to their position by way of an emotional intuition.  In short, their position really is based on emotion, not logic....

Wow. A Liberal arriving at their opinion based on emotion and not logic..SHOCKING!!!  :o
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#12
(06-17-2009, 02:21 PM)salixbabylonica Wrote: *Lest this be taken as giving offense, in no way should this be construed as an assertion that Rosarium's vegetarianism is due to emotion.  There are certainly non-crazy reasons for adopting a vegetarian diet, but there are a lot of crazy vegetarians out there, including in my own family.

Well, look at it from another angle. There are very good reasons for killing a large mammal and eating its flesh, but most people do not do it because of those reasons.

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#13
Here is my new blog with its first post on my reasons for being a vegan and for being a naturalist: http://nonpeccabis.blogspot.com/

Hopefully, it will help people understand one can choose to eat natural foods without being a freak :)

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#14
In a theoretical way, you can make a link between pro-life and vegetarianism.

The reality falls far short. My experience with vegetarians is that they tend to lean waaay left. They are very much in favor of a "woman's right to choice" unless that choice is about choosing to eat meat. Or wear leather. Or fur. There might be some normal vegetarians, but they are a small minority.

They tend to be extremists. Ever notice how many vegans also wear hemp clothing, and push for legalizing hemp. What's unsaid is they like that refined hemp, too *cough, cough*, dude.

And the arguments they use are so lame... "Cows are vegetarian and they grow up big and strong." True. But cows also have 4 stomachs so they wring all the nutrients out of grass. A belly-full of grass wouldn't do much for a human but keep him regular. Very regular. Besides, God gave us a gall bladder for a reason.

There's that claim that using crops to feed animals is inefficient. Then how come ground beef is cheaper than soy patties? And why, if it's so natural for us to eat plants, it's always disguised as food? Tofu turkey. Tofu hotdogs. Tofu cheese. Meatless hamburgers. It should just look like oatmeal, cream of wheat, or polenta! 

Vegetables are what food eats.

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#15
(06-18-2009, 10:47 PM)SoCalLocal Wrote: In a theoretical way, you can make a link between pro-life and vegetarianism.

The reality falls far short. My experience with vegetarians is that they tend to lean waaay left. They are very much in favor of a "woman's right to choice" unless that choice is about choosing to eat meat. Or wear leather. Or fur. There might be some normal vegetarians, but they are a small minority.
Careful, you are saying something without data and is potentially wrong. Most vegans are not outspoken. You see them as a "small minority", but are we really? There are other vegans on this forum who never discuss it. I only discussed it on vegetariant related threads (and then it become more common knowledge). Your experience with vegetarians is only with those you see as vegetarians. Read my blog entry on the last section about "jokes".

There might be some normal non-vegetarians, but theyare a minority. Most are pushy and judgemental ;)

Quote:They tend to be extremists. Ever notice how many vegans also wear hemp clothing, and push for legalizing hemp. What's unsaid is they like that refined hemp, too *cough, cough*, dude.
We tend to mind our own business and are never noticed.

Quote:There's that claim that using crops to feed animals is inefficient. Then how come ground beef is cheaper than soy patties? And why, if it's so natural for us to eat plants, it's always disguised as food? Tofu turkey. Tofu hotdogs. Tofu cheese. Meatless hamburgers. It should just look like oatmeal, cream of wheat, or polenta! 
I have never eaten such food. They are actually not popular with vegetarians or vegens in my experience. They are popular with "normal" people who want to eat "healthy" or on a "diet". A vegan eats good food, not that processed fake stuff.

Quote:Vegetables are what food eats.
Lame.
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#16
(06-18-2009, 11:20 PM)Rosarium Wrote:
(06-18-2009, 10:47 PM)SoCalLocal Wrote: In a theoretical way, you can make a link between pro-life and vegetarianism.

The reality falls far short. My experience with vegetarians is that they tend to lean waaay left. They are very much in favor of a "woman's right to choice" unless that choice is about choosing to eat meat. Or wear leather. Or fur. There might be some normal vegetarians, but they are a small minority.
Careful, you are saying something without data and is potentially wrong. Most vegans are not outspoken. You see them as a "small minority", but are we really? There are other vegans on this forum who never discuss it. I only discussed it on vegetariant related threads (and then it become more common knowledge). Your experience with vegetarians is only with those you see as vegetarians. Read my blog entry on the last section about "jokes".

There might be some normal non-vegetarians, but theyare a minority. Most are pushy and judgemental ;)

Quote:They tend to be extremists. Ever notice how many vegans also wear hemp clothing, and push for legalizing hemp. What's unsaid is they like that refined hemp, too *cough, cough*, dude.
We tend to mind our own business and are never noticed.

Quote:There's that claim that using crops to feed animals is inefficient. Then how come ground beef is cheaper than soy patties? And why, if it's so natural for us to eat plants, it's always disguised as food? Tofu turkey. Tofu hotdogs. Tofu cheese. Meatless hamburgers. It should just look like oatmeal, cream of wheat, or polenta! 
I have never eaten such food. They are actually not popular with vegetarians or vegens in my experience. They are popular with "normal" people who want to eat "healthy" or on a "diet". A vegan eats good food, not that processed fake stuff.

Quote:Vegetables are what food eats.
Lame.
I invite you to visit Santa Cruz, Berkeley, or west Los Angeles, California and then tell me that vegetarians are not left-wing and extremist. Them's the ones I have experience with. I stand by my observation.

Also, ever notice how when a carnivore has a vegetarian over for dinner, they have to have vegetarian food for them, but if a carnivore goes to a vegetarian's house, they don't get served meat? How many carnivores write articles and blogs trying to show the vegans the errors of their ways? A lot less than the opposite.

And that joke is not lame. I laughed a lot the first time I heard it so I stole it for my own use. 
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#17
(06-19-2009, 12:58 AM)SoCalLocal Wrote: I invite you to visit Santa Cruz, Berkeley, or west Los Angeles, California and then tell me that vegetarians are not left-wing and extremist. Them's the ones I have experience with. I stand by my observation.
Aren't those areas as a whole liberal? The world is bigger than that.

Quote:Also, ever notice how when a carnivore has a vegetarian over for dinner, they have to have vegetarian food for them, but if a carnivore goes to a vegetarian's house, they don't get served meat?
A "carnivore" (which they aren't) usually doesn't have any problem with eating non meat foods. My brother has a friend who has some severe food allergies. We never serve food with that in it (if we do, we make sure to have food strictly separated). It isn't a matter of preference, but of courtesy. If I know my sister hates lima beans, I make sure to have alternatives to them. It isn't a matter of playing waiter for people, but of providing some food. For the few people whose house I may eat at who know I'm a vegan, I never expect them to do something special for me. They usually are mindful to have enough variety so I can find something to eat though.

What you said doesn't make any sense. If there were, for the sake of argument, a person who only ate animal foods out of choice or necessity, a vegetarian who did not have moral issues with eating animals would probably serve something they could eat. A vegan who did have moral resistance to eating animals would probably inform that person they wouldn't be able to serve them anything.

Quote: How many carnivores write articles and blogs trying to show the vegans the errors of their ways? A lot less than the opposite.
How many "carnivores" come up in my face to show me the error of my ways? Quite a lot. As I said, the average person is more pushy and nosy than the average vegan. Anything against the norm will have more articles on them. I mean, do you really expect there to be an article to say "Do what most people do"?

Quote:And that joke is not lame. I laughed a lot the first time I heard it so I stole it for my own use. 
Keep in mind I hear it from many people all the time.

You can say all you want about specific mentalities, just don't generalise especially when it is false.
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#18
(06-19-2009, 01:33 AM)Rosarium Wrote:
(06-19-2009, 12:58 AM)SoCalLocal Wrote: I invite you to visit Santa Cruz, Berkeley, or west Los Angeles, California and then tell me that vegetarians are not left-wing and extremist. Them's the ones I have experience with. I stand by my observation.
Aren't those areas as a whole liberal? The world is bigger than that.

Quote:Also, ever notice how when a carnivore has a vegetarian over for dinner, they have to have vegetarian food for them, but if a carnivore goes to a vegetarian's house, they don't get served meat?
A "carnivore" (which they aren't) usually doesn't have any problem with eating non meat foods. My brother has a friend who has some severe food allergies. We never serve food with that in it (if we do, we make sure to have food strictly separated). It isn't a matter of preference, but of courtesy. If I know my sister hates lima beans, I make sure to have alternatives to them. It isn't a matter of playing waiter for people, but of providing some food. For the few people whose house I may eat at who know I'm a vegan, I never expect them to do something special for me. They usually are mindful to have enough variety so I can find something to eat though.

What you said doesn't make any sense. If there were, for the sake of argument, a person who only ate animal foods out of choice or necessity, a vegetarian who did not have moral issues with eating animals would probably serve something they could eat. A vegan who did have moral resistance to eating animals would probably inform that person they wouldn't be able to serve them anything.

Quote: How many carnivores write articles and blogs trying to show the vegans the errors of their ways? A lot less than the opposite.
How many "carnivores" come up in my face to show me the error of my ways? Quite a lot. As I said, the average person is more pushy and nosy than the average vegan. Anything against the norm will have more articles on them. I mean, do you really expect there to be an article to say "Do what most people do"?

Quote:And that joke is not lame. I laughed a lot the first time I heard it so I stole it for my own use. 
Keep in mind I hear it from many people all the time.

You can say all you want about specific mentalities, just don't generalise especially when it is false.

You can't dismiss someone's personal experience by saying "the world is bigger than that" and then present your own "smaller-than-the-world" experience as evidence.  Be consistent.

I agree with SoCal.  The vegans by far are more outspoken and demanding.  I've waitressed in restaurants of various types so I can tell you that, from the endless questions to the requests for substitutions, to the loud whining when the restaurant doesn't meet every last permutation of vegan-in-progress, yeah, they're a pain in the rear.  They MAKE themselves obvious with their incessant self-righteousness and loud proclamations of the purity of their lifestyle.    I always want to ask, "If you know we don't serve what you will accept, then stop coming here!"  It would get me fired but it would be oh so satisfying.
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#19
(06-19-2009, 02:11 PM)HolySoulsinPurgatory Wrote: You can't dismiss someone's personal experience by saying "the world is bigger than that" and then present your own "smaller-than-the-world" experience as evidence.  Be consistent.
I'm talking about vegans as a whole. Yes, there are very vocal ones, but the vaste majority are not vocal. I am consistent. My statements apply to vegans in any part of the world.

I don't deny anyone's personal experience, I do take issue when they use their personal experiences to judge others, especially me. So many blanket statements were said which are easily proven to be false, by the simple fact no vegan on this forum displayed the attitudes described. I'm not the only one you know.

Quote:I agree with SoCal.  The vegans by far are more outspoken and demanding.  I've waitressed in restaurants of various types so I can tell you that, from the endless questions to the requests for substitutions, to the loud whining when the restaurant doesn't meet every last permutation of vegan-in-progress, yeah, they're a pain in the rear.
I've seen non vegans do the same thing. You only are seeing the outspoken ones and I'm telling you that there are many more who are not outspoken. I go to restaurants sometimes, and I've never made any requests beyond asking that cheese not be placed on something which they may put it on usually. That is all. Given the pushy attitudes of non vegans, my statements were proven correct by this thread. Non vegans are more of a pain to vegans than vegans are to non vegans on a daily basis.

Quote: They MAKE themselves obvious with their incessant self-righteousness and loud proclamations of the purity of their lifestyle. 
I'm sure they do; they just aren't the majority.

Quote:I always want to ask, "If you know we don't serve what you will accept, then stop coming here!"  It would get me fired but it would be oh so satisfying.
Most vegans do that; that is why you never see them.
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#20
Vegetarianism? Clearly a hippie fad.
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