Tattoos licit?
#81
(06-23-2009, 02:21 AM)Iuvenalis Wrote: Ah, that video. Well then I could not disagree with you more then. The 'UFO hype' predated that faked mid-90's video by half a century. It might have rekindled this subject in the culture at large, but this was hardly the 'beginnings' of any sort of hype.
The descriptions of this thing were done earlier (before the video). That helped bolster the "grey" as an alien entity.

(06-23-2009, 02:09 AM)Rosarium Wrote: What do I think of the casual references to these greys? What do you mean? Are you asking what do I think if their 'symbology,' their visages/images or their meme appearing everywhere? Not sure what you mean here?
I mean in the sense of science fiction, tv shows, and casual alien references. For example, this funny satirical video game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroy_All_Humans!

(A PM was sent, in case you didn't see it. The forum by default doesn't alert one to new PMs)
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#82
(06-23-2009, 02:26 AM)Rosarium Wrote: I mean in the sense of science fiction, tv shows, and casual alien references. For example, this funny satirical video game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroy_All_Humans!

Ah, I see.

Well, I think it's probably just like the misguided levity that people use Ouija boards with, or 'harmless' tarot or even 'fun' horoscopes.

That answer it?
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#83
(06-23-2009, 02:32 AM)Iuvenalis Wrote:
(06-23-2009, 02:26 AM)Rosarium Wrote: I mean in the sense of science fiction, tv shows, and casual alien references. For example, this funny satirical video game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroy_All_Humans!

Ah, I see.

Well, I think it's probably just like the misguided levity that people use Ouija boards with, or 'harmless' tarot or even 'fun' horoscopes.

That answer it?

Sort of. I would have to put aliens as demons on the same level as actual evil practices. I'm not entirely convinced that these aliens are not first human mental projects, even if they are used for evil.
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#84
(06-23-2009, 02:24 AM)Iuvenalis Wrote: You should see the paintings he 'decorated' the walls at that house with. Well, perhaps you shouldn't actually. The owner, an older woman, painted over them, she said she swore the eyes moved, etc. They were painted with, shall we say, unorthodox materials. There are likely properties Crowley was seeking using such materials-- I suspect.

OK, so I'm not the only one. I hope your explanation is the correct one, though.
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#85
(06-23-2009, 02:34 AM)il_lebbroso Wrote:
(06-23-2009, 02:24 AM)Iuvenalis Wrote: You should see the paintings he 'decorated' the walls at that house with. Well, perhaps you shouldn't actually. The owner, an older woman, painted over them, she said she swore the eyes moved, etc. They were painted with, shall we say, unorthodox materials. There are likely properties Crowley was seeking using such materials-- I suspect.

OK, so I'm not the only one. I hope your explanation is the correct one, though.

Actually you probably do not hope this. The 'materials' I'm referring to are, well, blood among other things.

If you read that article on that page, they explain the history of this drawing, how it was produced. Crowley claimed to have sketched it from the actual subject being right in front of him. Well, so you don't have to read it, I'll quote some disturbing things:

Quote:Lam, (whose name derives from the Tibetan word for "way" or "path") later became the subject of a portrait by Crowley, drawn from life and imbued with a haunting inner quality of its own. The original was first exhibited in New York in 1919 and has been reproduced several times since then, most recently in the third issue of Starfire magazine. Although lacking the crude power of Crowley's more extravagant canvases and murals, it is nevertheless a remarkable piece of work.

and
Quote:A similar situation arose some 30 years later in the late 1980s, when Grant allegedly received 'strong intimations' to the effect that Crowley's portrait of Lam "is the present focus of an extraterrestrial -- and perhaps trans-plutonic-- energy which the OTO is required to communicate at this critical period..."

I'll redact significant parts of the 'procedure' here for 'safety':
Quote:Perhaps the best option in an article as necessarily as brief as this, is to quote directly from The Lam Statement, a text circulated among OTO initiates with a view to "regularizing the mode of rapport and constructing a magical formula for establishing communication with Lam." We are told first of all that:

...

The portrait of (Lam) which is reproduced in The Magical Revival may be used as the visual focus, and can serve as the Yantra of the Cult; the name Lam is the Mantra;... Entry may be affected by projecting consciousness through the eyes..."

And elsewhere, in a section titled The Magical Procedure:

The Mode of Entering the Egg may proceed as follows. Each votary is encouraged to experiment and evolve his own method from the basic procedure:

1) Sit in silence before the portrait.
...
4) ...close the eyes of Lam and await developments.

The Remainder of The Lam Statement deals with the practicalities of invocation and banishing in a ritual context. Some parts of the text are esoteric, having to do with the Cabala and other such difficult matters (my knowledge of occultism is largely theoretical; I have very little practical experience); others are remarkably straightforward. It is difficult to assess whether the claims made for "LAMeditation " have any basis in fact. Certain objections inevitably remain open. Nevertheless, we should be cautious about assuming that it is all pure imagination. There is a definite residue of data here that cannot be dismissed out of hand.

and
Quote:Perhaps the most important point arising from The Lam Statement is simply that contactee type experiences can be induced at will.
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#86
After some research, I found Crowley used a large number of different drugs. His testimony at this point has little value to me, especially for sensory perceptions.

While he may have seen the subject of that image, that doesn't mean it was anything other than a result of his own mind.
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#87
(06-23-2009, 02:53 AM)Rosarium Wrote: After some research, I found Crowley used a large number of different drugs. His testimony at this point has little value to me, especially for sensory perceptions.

While he may have seen the subject of that image, that doesn't mean it was anything other than a result of his own mind.

I'm not sure you have used drugs yourself. I'd doubt it, based on what I know of your naturalism, etc.

However, I would caution you about being flippant here.

I do not think all drugs do what you think they do, that is, alter perceptions on a permanent basis outside of usage. He used, AFAIK, phenethylamines and tryptamines, cocaine, and hashish and opium (and other opiates). No methamphetamines (that I know of), which are likely to cause perception disorders. Besides the dopaminergic action of opiates and cocaine causing significant addiction, I'm not aware of any peer reviewed research literature that suggests that there are long-term affects to perception or other cognitive function from these classes of drugs, particularly the first two (phenethylamines and tryptamines, which I'd know much more about from my thesis than the other compounds) which are usually associated with altered perception (not that hashish do a fair bit in this regard when intoxicated by it!).

In a nutshell, I don't think "The drugs made them do it" flies here.
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#88
(06-23-2009, 03:24 AM)Iuvenalis Wrote: I'm not sure you have used drugs yourself. I'd doubt it, based on what I know of your naturalism, etc.
Although I wasn't always a naturalist, you are correct. I have seen many others use a wide variety of drugs (I wasn't present when they took them)

Quote:However, I would caution you about being flippant here.

I do not think all drugs do what you think they do, that is, alter perceptions on a permanent basis outside of usage. He used, AFAIK, phenethylamines and tryptamines, cocaine, and hashish and opium (and other opiates). No methamphetamines (that I know of), which are likely to cause perception disorders. Besides the dopaminergic action of opiates and cocaine causing significant addiction, I'm not aware of any peer reviewed research literature that suggests that there are long-term affects to perception or other cognitive function from these classes of drugs, particularly the first two (phenethylamines and tryptamines, which I'd know much more about from my thesis than the other compounds) which are usually associated with altered perception (not that hashish do a fair bit in this regard when intoxicated by it!).

In a nutshell, I don't think "The drugs made them do it" flies here.
That is true, but I also know people who had severe paranoia from marijuana. For someone using drugs, and with an active imagination (he wasn't what we'd call totally rational; look at his reasons for giving up chess), it is very hard to take extraordinary claims seriously.

So, the three posibilities:

* He was purposefully lying
* He actually did see what he wrote, but it was just a product of his mind, possibly helped with drugs
* He saw what he did and it was an actual demon

Which is more likely? All three are possible, but it is hard to attribute to demons what mental distortion easily explains, especially when that person is using lots of drugs.
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#89
why cant lam just be a demon? this seems the most likely of the three. Crowley was playing around with evil things. no just playing we was actively communicating with them. the drugs could of made him more susceptible to these demons rather then being the cause of mental distortion
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#90
(06-23-2009, 12:01 PM)devotedknuckles Wrote: why cant lam just be a demon? this seems the most likely of the three. Crowley was playing around with evil things. no just playing we was actively communicating with them. the drugs could of made him more susceptible to these demons rather then being the cause of mental distortion

I think we should take the alien discussion here: http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/inde...059.0.html

Perhaps you could post that on the other thread? I'd like to respond to it.

About tattoos, I met someone who had a few discreet tattoos, but one had some ancient Egyptian symbols on it, which I recognised as religious in nature, although the person just seemed to like history. How do you all feel back such tattoos?
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