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What do you think of the "aliens"?
#31
Iuvenalis, that "awareness" argument could be used about anything. Revelation is the best of our awareness. I think the argument someone put forward that "theologically they can't exist" does away with any subjective "awareness" issues. Anyone who tries to argue that aliens (in the popular sense of the word) can exist, visit earth etc, obviously (to me at least) can't believe the Faith. It makes a mockery of everything, IMO. I guess that's why catholics who believe that they SEEM to exist call them demons - because it fits theologically. Just my opinion!

Yes, Rosarium, as little as I know about greys and what-not, I think aliens are a product of the cultural mythology. And that they don't exist. :)
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#32
(06-25-2009, 03:13 AM)Benno Wrote: Yes, Rosarium, as little as I know about greys and what-not, I think aliens are a product of the cultural mythology. And that they don't exist. :)

Well, they do exist. The question is, what is their existence? Fiction, demon, real aliens, etc.

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#33
Do tiny green elephants with three trunks "exist" because "lots" of pretty strange people have thought of or "seen" them? The concept exists, but they don't. This is getting into aristotle stuff. For God's sake, aliens are rubbish, full stop.
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#34
(06-25-2009, 03:22 AM)Benno Wrote: Do tiny green elephants with three trunks "exist" because "lots" of pretty strange people have thought of or "seen" them? The concept exists, but they don't. This is getting into aristotle stuff. For God's sake, aliens are rubbish, full stop.

Yes, I understand, but this thread is about the concept of aliens in actual culture :)

It wasn't originally meant to a topic about the theological and biological possibilities of ET.
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#35
(06-25-2009, 03:06 AM)Rosarium Wrote:
(06-25-2009, 03:02 AM)Iuvenalis Wrote:
(06-25-2009, 03:00 AM)Benno Wrote: Why do they only visit certain countries?

Easy. They do not only visit certain countries. Just because you're unaware of this, don't make it so.

I think Benno was saying that not all countries have the same mythos of aliens. In the USA, the grey is the most common. In the UK, the Nordic is. South America has less human monsters. They seem to be culturally defined, and not universal.

This is one of the reasons why I say they are not demons at their origin. If, for example, there was a more universal concept of a strange being with a more uniform behavior, then it would be grounds for saying it is something not the product of the mind of men.

You're making a lot of assumptions. Check out the books I've mentioned to you if you can.

That they are so 'malleable' in their appearance and tend to appear in a form comprehensible to the observer does not make them less real or the accounts less compelling (once ancillary evidence and volume of reports, etc is taken into account) but could suggest an intelligence trying to make itself more intelligible, or possibly a difficulty in perception on the part of the observer.

The brain does things like that, fill in gaps etc, it doesn't mean the event isn't real. That does not follow.
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#36
(06-25-2009, 03:13 AM)Benno Wrote: Iuvenalis, that "awareness" argument could be used about anything. Revelation is the best of our awareness. I think the argument someone put forward that "theologically they can't exist" does away with any subjective "awareness" issues. Anyone who tries to argue that aliens (in the popular sense of the word) can exist, visit earth etc, obviously (to me at least) can't believe the Faith. It makes a mockery of everything, IMO. I guess that's why catholics who believe that they SEEM to exist call them demons - because it fits theologically. Just my opinion!
You seem to be arguing against a position that these are 'extraterrestrials.' I think I have been consistently emphatic that I do not think this. I do think they they are real, in the sense that they are not 'mere' hallucinations, but I have never said anything about them being extraterrestrial. You mustn't have read anything I've written. I've said not to be dismissive, not that they are from some other 'place' in the material universe-- quite the opposite.

(06-25-2009, 03:13 AM)Benno Wrote: Yes, Rosarium, as little as I know about greys and what-not, I think aliens are a product of the cultural mythology. And that they don't exist. :)
Agreed: you know little about this subject.
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#37
Yeah I'll drop out of it.
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#38
(06-25-2009, 03:22 AM)Benno Wrote: Do tiny green elephants with three trunks "exist" because "lots" of pretty strange people have thought of or "seen" them? The concept exists, but they don't. This is getting into aristotle stuff. For God's sake, aliens are rubbish, full stop.

You should come up with a simile that is actually comparable.

I know of no one personally or in any literature that claims such animals exist, that they have seen them or thought they saw them.

Anything you can think of would 'exist' as a concept sure, but your analogy is inept in that it is a disimilar phenomenon to these sightings.

1-There is and has been physical evidence left behind of 'whatever' these are
2-There have been large group sightings, I'm not aware of people sharing booze-induced pink elephant hallucinations. It's possible, but I don't know where it's documented
3-Many of these sightings are by trained observers: police, pilots, astronomers, military, etc. etc.
4-Some have even occasionally shown up on instrumentation e.g. radar, photographs, film, electromagnetic detection and even geiger counters.

Saying 'aliens are rubbish' is stating what you wish to prove, and a straw man, I've said nothing about 'aliens' except to use the terminology Rosarium has imposed upon this thread, which is loaded in the sense that it skews towards an extraterrestrial hypothesis-- I do not think this hypothesis is likely based on a lot more data than you're apparently considering. In fact, you seem to lack any understanding of the scope, depth and quality of such data.
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#39
Yes, I lack all knowledge, and frankly I'm happy to lack it. I do know that man is man and revelation is revelation though. I admit I haven't read much of the thread - just an off-hand response to a quirky topic, which I have absolutely nothing to contribute to except to say that man is man and revelation is revelation, and maybe that a hobby's a hobby but it ain't theological debate, unless you want to put it in theological terms.
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#40
(06-25-2009, 03:53 AM)Benno Wrote: Yes, I lack all knowledge, and frankly I'm happy to lack it. I do know that man is man and revelation is revelation though. I admit I haven't read much of the thread - just an off-hand response to a quirky topic, which I have absolutely nothing to contribute to except to say that man is man and revelation is revelation, and maybe that a hobby's a hobby but it ain't theological debate, unless you want to put it in theological terms.

Thank you for your contribution-- a normative statement ...or two.

It was leaning toward theology: namely; the relationship of these 'things,' if spiritual in nature (which much be presupposed to be a theological discussion) to man, until you started 'debunking'.
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