Blaming Vatican II
(02-02-2010, 05:28 PM)INPEFESS Wrote:
(01-13-2010, 10:13 AM)ggreg Wrote:
(01-08-2010, 01:20 AM)Scipio_a Wrote: SearchingCath

TradMavrick gave almost a concise answer as can be given...and when all is said and done, man has the free will to choose wrongly, but in the natural law he does not have the right to do so.

Freedom of religion as it is currently understood is tantamount to conceding a right in the Natural Law which does not exist.

Or in short, you don't have the right to be wrong.

I like that. ...very concise.

Pius XII was also quite concise:

Pope Pius XII, Ci Riesce, 1953 Wrote:"Above all, it must be clearly stated that no human authority, no state, no community of states, whatever be their religious character, can give a positive command or positive authorisation to teach or to do that which would be contrary to religious truth or moral good. Such a command or such an authorization would have no obligatory power and would remain without effect. No authority may give such a command, because it is contrary to nature to oblige the spirit and the will of man to error and evil, or to consider one or the other as indifferent. Not even God could give such a positive command or positive authorisation, because it would be in contradiction to His absolute truth and sanctity."

"Thus the two principles are clarified to which recourse must be had in concrete cases for the answer to the serious question concerning the attitude which the jurist, the statesman and the sovereign Catholic state is to adopt in consideration of the community of nations in regard to a formula of religious and moral toleration as described above.

First: that which does not correspond to truth or to the norm of morality objectively has no right to exist, to be spread or to be activated.

Secondly: failure to impede this with civil laws and coercive measures can nevertheless be justified in the interests of a higher and more general good."
Quote:Or in short, you don't have the right to be wrong.

..but, you also have the right to embrace the right faith freely, rather than be forced to by the state.

These two ideas, along with the idea that the common good should be the primary factor in when or to what degree false religious activity is restricted, are the main points of Catholic doctrine on religious liberty.
(01-13-2010, 10:13 AM)ggreg Wrote: Or in short, you don't have the right to be wrong.

The problem is that you are not the judge what is wrong: God is the judge.

In other hand everyone must follow his/her conscience, that is the God given compass, not the fallible intellect.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature those things that are of the law; these having not the law are a law to themselves: 15 Who shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness to them, and their thoughts between themselves accusing, or also defending one another,
(06-30-2009, 07:45 PM)glgas Wrote: I have a question for all those who blame the Council for the bad shape of the Church: How do they expect a renewal?

In the last 2000 years always a Council brought the renewal:

- Nicea from the depth of Arianism

- Constance from the Great Western Schism

- Trident from the destructivr effect of the Protestantism

Blaming Vatican II, and practically stating that all the bishops of the Earth could agree and sign something which is destructive, destroys the authority of the concept of any Council. What will then lift the Church from the depth of the Modernism?

Would not be better to search for the chain of events, as a complex issue, instead of blaming Vatican II?

Matt 18:18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.


What is this thing the Bishops are supposed to sign?  ???
I think we are doing a pretty good job of getting past Vat II without calling any new councils, etc.  The jugular was never cut, our bone marrow is healthy, and the blood supply is recovering. It just took time.

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