Bp W column, 7.4.09
(07-07-2009, 09:46 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 03:34 AM)Iuvenalis Wrote:
Quote:    "How many young girls there are who do not see any wrongdoing in following certain shameless styles like so many sheep. They certainly would blush if they could guess the impression they make and the feelings they evoke in those who see them. Do they not see the harm resulting from excess in certain gymnastic exercises and sports not suitable for virtuous girls? What sins are committed or provoked by conversations which are too free, by immodest shows, by dangerous reading. How lax have consciences become, how pagan morals!"
-Pope Pius XII

And what about this, ladies?

What is the Pope citing here?  I can think of "certain gymnastic exercises and sports" as being things that are immoral/suggestive in their movements.  Think of the way some gymnastic-women contort their bodies in their routines.
Reply
(07-07-2009, 09:44 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 09:23 AM)Underdog Wrote: Bishop Williamson decided to treat a subject he has absolutely no knowledge about.

http://www.womenstennisblog.com/2009/03/...-wta-tour/
Quote:It’s official: Kim Clijsters will again play on the Sony Ericsson WTA Tour. Her return from retirement is planned for the US hardcourt season.

The former world No.1 has asked for Cincinnati, Toronto and US Open wildcards. According to the plans, the tennis player who retired in May 2007 will make her comeback on August 10, at the Cincinnati Open.

"When I started preparing for the Wimbledon game with Steffi Graf I felt this drive. I wanted a new challenge. This is just for fun for now to see if I can do it," said the 25-year-old Clijsters, the winner of 34 singles titles.

"I don't need to be number one again. I have done that and I don't need to do it again. I am just going to see how things evolve."

After retiring from tennis, Clijsters married basketball player Brian Lynch and gave birth to daughter Jada. (source: Reuters, photo: Stephane Martinache)

http://thetennistimes.com/lindsay-davenp...baby-girl/
Quote:It has been reported that three time Grand Slam champion Lindsay Davenport has given birth to her second child. Davenport gave birth to a healthy baby girl and she and husband Jon Leach cant be happier. They have named the new baby Lauren Andrus Davenport Leach. The married couple already have a two-year old son named Jagger.

Tony Godsick, the tennis star’s agent, said on Sunday that both the mom and daughter are doing great. He added that the other members of the family were ecstatic.

(bolded by me for emphasis)

Apparently one can be both a mother and a professional tennis player at the same time.

I do think you've completely missed the point.

Commandments Left on the Cutting Room Floor:
Commandment Number 11:
Thou shalt not criticize Bishop Williamson of the SSPX - he is perpetually right.  When he is right, he's really right.  When he's wrong, well, he's never wrong, you're just reading him wrong.
Reply
(07-07-2009, 09:46 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 03:34 AM)Iuvenalis Wrote:
Quote:    "How many young girls there are who do not see any wrongdoing in following certain shameless styles like so many sheep. They certainly would blush if they could guess the impression they make and the feelings they evoke in those who see them. Do they not see the harm resulting from excess in certain gymnastic exercises and sports not suitable for virtuous girls? What sins are committed or provoked by conversations which are too free, by immodest shows, by dangerous reading. How lax have consciences become, how pagan morals!"
-Pope Pius XII

And what about this, ladies?

It says certain exercises, but interestingly, does not say what those are...  
I'm just guessing here, but the following sentence naming immodest shows makes me think he might be referring to burlesque without being too blunt.
Reply
(07-07-2009, 10:02 AM)CollegeCatholic Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 09:44 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 09:23 AM)Underdog Wrote: Bishop Williamson decided to treat a subject he has absolutely no knowledge about.

http://www.womenstennisblog.com/2009/03/...-wta-tour/
Quote:It’s official: Kim Clijsters will again play on the Sony Ericsson WTA Tour. Her return from retirement is planned for the US hardcourt season.

The former world No.1 has asked for Cincinnati, Toronto and US Open wildcards. According to the plans, the tennis player who retired in May 2007 will make her comeback on August 10, at the Cincinnati Open.

"When I started preparing for the Wimbledon game with Steffi Graf I felt this drive. I wanted a new challenge. This is just for fun for now to see if I can do it," said the 25-year-old Clijsters, the winner of 34 singles titles.

"I don't need to be number one again. I have done that and I don't need to do it again. I am just going to see how things evolve."

After retiring from tennis, Clijsters married basketball player Brian Lynch and gave birth to daughter Jada. (source: Reuters, photo: Stephane Martinache)

http://thetennistimes.com/lindsay-davenp...baby-girl/
Quote:It has been reported that three time Grand Slam champion Lindsay Davenport has given birth to her second child. Davenport gave birth to a healthy baby girl and she and husband Jon Leach cant be happier. They have named the new baby Lauren Andrus Davenport Leach. The married couple already have a two-year old son named Jagger.

Tony Godsick, the tennis star’s agent, said on Sunday that both the mom and daughter are doing great. He added that the other members of the family were ecstatic.

(bolded by me for emphasis)

Apparently one can be both a mother and a professional tennis player at the same time.

I do think you've completely missed the point.

Commandments Left on the Cutting Room Floor:
Commandment Number 11:
Thou shalt not criticize Bishop Williamson of the SSPX - he is perpetually right.  When he is right, he's really right.  When he's wrong, well, he's never wrong, you're just reading him wrong.

I'm not defending Bp. Williamson here.
Reply
(07-07-2009, 10:02 AM)ErinIsNice Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 09:46 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 03:34 AM)Iuvenalis Wrote:
Quote:    "How many young girls there are who do not see any wrongdoing in following certain shameless styles like so many sheep. They certainly would blush if they could guess the impression they make and the feelings they evoke in those who see them. Do they not see the harm resulting from excess in certain gymnastic exercises and sports not suitable for virtuous girls? What sins are committed or provoked by conversations which are too free, by immodest shows, by dangerous reading. How lax have consciences become, how pagan morals!"
-Pope Pius XII

And what about this, ladies?

It says certain exercises, but interestingly, does not say what those are...  
I'm just guessing here, but the following sentence naming immodest shows makes me think he might be referring to burlesque without being too blunt.

So because he does not say...we cannot know at all? This is a moral question and admidts to degrees.

This is 1954, mind you. "How lax have consciences become, how pagan morals!"

Reply
(07-07-2009, 10:17 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 10:02 AM)ErinIsNice Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 09:46 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 03:34 AM)Iuvenalis Wrote:
Quote:    "How many young girls there are who do not see any wrongdoing in following certain shameless styles like so many sheep. They certainly would blush if they could guess the impression they make and the feelings they evoke in those who see them. Do they not see the harm resulting from excess in certain gymnastic exercises and sports not suitable for virtuous girls? What sins are committed or provoked by conversations which are too free, by immodest shows, by dangerous reading. How lax have consciences become, how pagan morals!"
-Pope Pius XII

And what about this, ladies?

It says certain exercises, but interestingly, does not say what those are...  
I'm just guessing here, but the following sentence naming immodest shows makes me think he might be referring to burlesque without being too blunt.

So because he does not say...we cannot know at all? This is a moral question and admidts to degrees.

This is 1954, mind you. "How lax have consciences become, how pagan morals!"

It's part of that vagueness-Modernist disease that infected the Vatican!!!!
Reply
(07-07-2009, 10:21 AM)CollegeCatholic Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 10:17 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 10:02 AM)ErinIsNice Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 09:46 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 03:34 AM)Iuvenalis Wrote:
Quote:    "How many young girls there are who do not see any wrongdoing in following certain shameless styles like so many sheep. They certainly would blush if they could guess the impression they make and the feelings they evoke in those who see them. Do they not see the harm resulting from excess in certain gymnastic exercises and sports not suitable for virtuous girls? What sins are committed or provoked by conversations which are too free, by immodest shows, by dangerous reading. How lax have consciences become, how pagan morals!"
-Pope Pius XII

And what about this, ladies?

It says certain exercises, but interestingly, does not say what those are...  
I'm just guessing here, but the following sentence naming immodest shows makes me think he might be referring to burlesque without being too blunt.

So because he does not say...we cannot know at all? This is a moral question and admidts to degrees.

This is 1954, mind you. "How lax have consciences become, how pagan morals!"

It's part of that vagueness-Modernist disease that infected the Vatican!!!!

No, it is the very nature of a moral question. You make a joke about it because you don't understand moral theology.
Reply
(07-07-2009, 10:26 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 10:21 AM)CollegeCatholic Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 10:17 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 10:02 AM)ErinIsNice Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 09:46 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 03:34 AM)Iuvenalis Wrote:
Quote:    "How many young girls there are who do not see any wrongdoing in following certain shameless styles like so many sheep. They certainly would blush if they could guess the impression they make and the feelings they evoke in those who see them. Do they not see the harm resulting from excess in certain gymnastic exercises and sports not suitable for virtuous girls? What sins are committed or provoked by conversations which are too free, by immodest shows, by dangerous reading. How lax have consciences become, how pagan morals!"
-Pope Pius XII

And what about this, ladies?

It says certain exercises, but interestingly, does not say what those are...  
I'm just guessing here, but the following sentence naming immodest shows makes me think he might be referring to burlesque without being too blunt.

So because he does not say...we cannot know at all? This is a moral question and admidts to degrees.

This is 1954, mind you. "How lax have consciences become, how pagan morals!"

It's part of that vagueness-Modernist disease that infected the Vatican!!!!

No, it is the very nature of a moral question. You make a joke about it because you don't understand moral theology.

I make a joke about it because we have no idea about what he's talking.

His phrase sounds like he's got a few choice things in mind.  He doesn't bother to tell us.

Also, I joke about it because I find your reactions foolish. 

Maybe you understand moral theology, I don't care.  Do I have an obligation to understand and know moral theology?  If the answer is no, then I couldn't care less.  The theologians and the bishops, and the popes can hash that out. 
Reply
(07-07-2009, 03:34 AM)Iuvenalis Wrote:
Quote:    "How many young girls there are who do not see any wrongdoing in following certain shameless styles like so many sheep. They certainly would blush if they could guess the impression they make and the feelings they evoke in those who see them. Do they not see the harm resulting from excess in certain gymnastic exercises and sports not suitable for virtuous girls? What sins are committed or provoked by conversations which are too free, by immodest shows, by dangerous reading. How lax have consciences become, how pagan morals!"
-Pope Pius XII

Can anyone give a web address to this full document/speech?  All I can find is this one excerpt quoted ad nauseum.
Reply
(07-07-2009, 10:29 AM)CollegeCatholic Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 10:26 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 10:21 AM)CollegeCatholic Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 10:17 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 10:02 AM)ErinIsNice Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 09:46 AM)lamentabili sane Wrote:
(07-07-2009, 03:34 AM)Iuvenalis Wrote:
Quote:    "How many young girls there are who do not see any wrongdoing in following certain shameless styles like so many sheep. They certainly would blush if they could guess the impression they make and the feelings they evoke in those who see them. Do they not see the harm resulting from excess in certain gymnastic exercises and sports not suitable for virtuous girls? What sins are committed or provoked by conversations which are too free, by immodest shows, by dangerous reading. How lax have consciences become, how pagan morals!"
-Pope Pius XII

And what about this, ladies?

It says certain exercises, but interestingly, does not say what those are...  
I'm just guessing here, but the following sentence naming immodest shows makes me think he might be referring to burlesque without being too blunt.

So because he does not say...we cannot know at all? This is a moral question and admidts to degrees.

This is 1954, mind you. "How lax have consciences become, how pagan morals!"

It's part of that vagueness-Modernist disease that infected the Vatican!!!!

No, it is the very nature of a moral question. You make a joke about it because you don't understand moral theology.

I make a joke about it because we have no idea about what he's talking.

His phrase sounds like he's got a few choice things in mind.  He doesn't bother to tell us.

Also, I joke about it because I find your reactions foolish. 

Maybe you understand moral theology, I don't care.  Do I have an obligation to understand and know moral theology?  If the answer is no, then I couldn't care less.  The theologians and the bishops, and the popes can hash that out. 

You do have an obligation to form your conscience correctly according to the Church's moral teachings. You appear to "okay" with a lax conscience.
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